Budget LPG system

[Touring Whore]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, it seemed to make more sense to put in in here than in technical help.

Having accepted my 316i isn't going to be as frugal as I wanted it to be, I'm looking at my options. I can either stick a different engine in (a lot of work and tools needed, car may be off the road for a long time, engine + tools = expense), but I'm not really sure the shell warrants it, and it won't give me much better economy, but at least I'll have a bit of performace to match the mpg.

The other thing I've been considering is DIYing an LPG kit onto the 4 pot. I can buy a second hand kit which I can sell when I get rid of the car, and it will be good practice for when I buy a bigger engined car, a 2.5 litre plus engine + LPG in a nice tourer = happy man.

With that in mind, I'm just after a bit of info on others experience of LPG. How difficult is a DIY install? How cheaply do you think I'll be able to acquire a 4 cyl kit? Do you think it's worth LPGing a 316? What kind of cost per mile do you get out of your LPG kit?

I really am on a budget now, after becoming self employed again, so I'm looking to do the conversion for pennies, though I reckon I could get the kit and fit it for less than £400. Does this seem like an achievable figure?

Thanks in advance,

Guy

[gareth]

it sounds very achievable. if you fork out for a kit with the plan of fitting it into a touring, get a toroidal tank that fits in the spare wheel well as you'll really want that when you swap it over.

most parts (tank, lambda control, fittings, evaporator) will be compatable with wither engine, just make sure the evaporator has enough capacity for a 170bhp output.

LPG is just over half the price of petrol and you'll lose a little from your mpg (less energy per unit volume in the LPG) so roughly 1/2 to 1/3 off your fuel bills would a a fair estimate.

have a search on here, i ran a long winded LPG install thread a while back when i did mine (it's a 3.5 touring so veeeeery thirsty) but the principles are all the same. there's plenty of info to read up on.

[e301988325i]

I had a thread running too on my install. I've spent £800, all new apart from LPG ECU, will take 10,000miles to recoup my investment.

[Morat]

How much was spent on the kit, and how much on installation? I'm tempted but I just know that if I DIY it there'll be a small mushroom cloud over Yorkshire and I'll be distributed over most of the moors.

[Touring Whore]

gareth - Nice build thread! Made me chuckle quite a bit, seemed to be a lot of
Gareth - I've got x problem
Brianmooore - Have you done y?
Gareth - No
Brianmooore - Well do that then.

A few more problems and quirks, followed by doing what Brian suggested, followed by a working set up. Kudos to you though! Very brave to finish the installation then go on a tour of Europe the following day! Your enthusiastic style of "Fit first, ask questions later" has motivated me (no offence meant there by the way, I genuinely like the way you went about your install).

e301988325i - I'll have a look at your build thread in a bit, though I can't see me stretching to £800 for the install. The only thing I'll be looking to buy new is hoses I think.

Morat - I'll race you to who can make the first mushroom cloud. If you see one to the south of you, It'll be me, I'll keep my eyes north.

I'll be keeping a watch on eBay for the next few weeks then, look out for a cheap kit, though there doesn't seem to be much on there, and most of what is is sequential stuff. I've got a few questions now as well.

1. Is there some universal software/interface for the ECU, or is it (as I suspect) bespoke software for each manufacturer? I don't want to end up buying an ECU that's no longer supported, or that needs some very expensive software to set up. Are there any brands that are more useable/popular that I should look out for?

2. Other than eBay, where should I be looking for a kit?

3. Heating to the vapouriser. I'm not sure what heating we're talking about here, do you plumb the vapouriser to your coolant system, or is it hot air that wants connecting up?

4. Are there any parts where it's far better to buy new (other than hoses)? I don't mind taking a chance and only getting a few weeks service from a second hand part, that's part of the trade off when buying second hand, but if there's something that is really not safe to buy second hand I'd rather know.

5. Since my car has a cat and Lambda sensor already fitted, is there any way to de-cat my car and use my existing Lambda sensor (or mount at least) with my LPG system. Will I need to swap my ECU for an ECU from a non-cat car? It's a '91 car, so as I understand it, I'm free to remove the cat.

Thanks for the replies so far, with a bit of luck I'll be running on LPG in a month or so.

Cheers,

Guy

[e301988325i]

e301988325i - I'll have a look at your build thread in a bit, though I can't see me stretching to £800 for the install. The only thing I'll be looking to buy new is hoses I think.

I started out with a complete kit for £100 and intended on finishing it for not much more. It was never going to happen, and quite frankly wasn't/isn't sensible to try and put gas together on a shoestring. Alex

That includes, tools I bought for the job, wires, connectors, drill bits, lambda, welding lambda bosses, etc etc + all the lpg hardware, software, datalink cable etc etc.

I think it's a realistic DIY install cost if you're starting from scratch.

I'll be keeping a watch on eBay for the next few weeks then, look out for a cheap kit, though there doesn't seem to be much on there, and most of what is is sequential stuff. I've got a few questions now as well.

1. Is there some universal software/interface for the ECU, or is it (as I suspect) bespoke software for each manufacturer? I don't want to end up buying an ECU that's no longer supported, or that needs some very expensive software to set up. Are there any brands that are more useable/popular that I should look out for?

AEB leonardo/millenium closed loop kit

2. Other than eBay, where should I be looking for a kit?

maybe try www.my90.co.uk/lpg

3. Heating to the vapouriser. I'm not sure what heating we're talking about here, do you plumb the vapouriser to your coolant system, or is it hot air that wants connecting up?

T off the heater matrix pipes, hot water. Vapourisers only have a limited lifespan, out of interest.

4. Are there any parts where it's far better to buy new (other than hoses)? I don't mind taking a chance and only getting a few weeks service from a second hand part, that's part of the trade off when buying second hand, but if there's something that is really not safe to buy second hand I'd rather know.

Everything needs to have E67r-01 on it, else it's not to the latest regs. Tanks are date stamped and need to be proffesionally inspected after 10 years, if ok they can be used for no more than a further 5 years.

5. Since my car has a cat and Lambda sensor already fitted, is there any way to de-cat my car and use my existing Lambda sensor (or mount at least) with my LPG system. Will I need to swap my ECU for an ECU from a non-cat car? It's a '91 car, so as I understand it, I'm free to remove the cat.

No need to decat unless you want to. Tap into lambda wiring under the dashboard. No need to change ECU.

[gareth]

gareth - Nice build thread! Made me chuckle quite a bit, seemed to be a lot of
Gareth - I've got x problem
Brianmooore - Have you done y?
Gareth - No
Brianmooore - Well do that then.

A few more problems and quirks, followed by doing what Brian suggested, followed by a working set up. Kudos to you though! Very brave to finish the installation then go on a tour of Europe the following day! Your enthusiastic style of "Fit first, ask questions later" has motivated me (no offence meant there by the way, I genuinely like the way you went about your install).

that seems to sum up any time i ask brian for help rather well!!!!

i like to get stuck in and see what i'm up against. forums suffer from people who want a detailed step by step instruction for everything they'll need to do and it's hard to get this in advance. a lot of stuff becomed obvious when you start and get stuck in, and for the rest, there's the legendary mr moooooore

[Touring Whore]

What are peoples thoughts on this (clicky) set up? I've checked with the seller and the tank will fit (630 x 180), it's got a Leonardo, so I'm thinking it's worth putting an offer in. Can anyone see why I should or shouldn't go for this?

Cheers,

Guy

[DaveD]

this looks reasonable...but what do I know?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MARRELLI-6-CYLIND ... .m14.l1262

[Touring Whore]

Hi Dave, it does look reasonable, but I'm looking to do a council install here, and the best part of £500 without the tank isn't justifiable (to the wife anyhow). I'd much prefer to buy a new kit and know that everything I'm fitting is working, but now I'm self/un-employed, I have to watch the pennies (cue the worlds smallest violins ). All of the work required on the E30 is being funded by the sale of my runabout, so with a bit of luck I'll have £500 to get the wheel bearing done, the fuel pump, senders, oil/filter/fuel filter/plugs/air filter/cam belt AND fit LPG!

I can afford to spend £200 on a second hand system, and it either needs another £200 spent on it, or stick it back on the bay and not loose too much. But £500 for half the system is waaay overbudget.

Guy.

[MJJ_ZX6RR]

2. Other than eBay, where should I be looking for a kit?

Guy,

Theo325 seems to be selling some LPG stuff on this thread - http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=145980

Just in case you had not seen it.

Martin.

[Touring Whore]

Thanks for that Martin, I had missed it . I've PM'd him to see what he's got.

[e301988325i]

What are peoples thoughts on this (clicky) set up? I've checked with the seller and the tank will fit (630 x 180), it's got a Leonardo, so I'm thinking it's worth putting an offer in. Can anyone see why I should or shouldn't go for this?

Cheers,

Guy

That tank loks like the old colour paint, like the one I bought s/hand and it was 10 years old. . .

leonardo aeb 175 is the system to have on an E30, brian gareth and myself are using it.

The multi valve on the tank doesn't have a built in solenoid valve so won't be e67r-01. I'm not saying it won't work though.

Small tank IMO, mine's 630 x250mm and only holds 48L of LPG.

Overall, this would be a good starting point for your lpg project, a tad overpriced, haggle over the age of the tank. I paid £100 for a similar setup s/hand.

[Touring Whore]

Thanks for that Alex, I think I'll make him a low offer, see what he says to that. I think if I get a working Leonardo, vapouriser/mixer and useable tank for £130 ish I'll have done well. It's nice to get the opinion of someone who's used LPG and has a bit of a clue, as shown by your answer

[gareth]

If you have that setup from theo, i have two LPG tanks here and only half an hour down the road from him. both tanks are bulky cylinder ones so not ideal but will be cheeeeeap to get them out of the way.
I do also have a M30 mixer, old OMVL or newer tartarini (iirc) vaporisor, coil of new pipe, filter / solenoid etc etc. all a bit old and random with no lambda control but if you really want to save money it should all work but not bee too elegant due to the tank.
essentially, i bought two LPG kits with cylinder tanks (only one with lambda control) and used the newer looking bits from both with a new donut tank and later a nice new OMVL R90/e vap. the rest of the bits are taking up space in my garage.

[Touring Whore]

Cheers for the offer Gareth but I'm really after a toroidal.

[allstar_07]

Heeltoe - have you bought anything yet?!