Well folks - i really really want to get my 2.7 mapped peoperly and dynoed and have been considering getting the uniq at evolve because it can be mapped well and run as reliable as oem ecu with uniq. I have the pennies saved up to spend on her so dont mind splashing out.
Howver i actually have a megasquirt ecu sitting here, along with a coil pack for wasted spark and injectors. So i also have the option of getting this fitted and mapped.
The problem or reason for doubt is that i keep being told that megasquirt is never as good/reliable as oem setup,that starting is never a straight forward affair and running is hard to get perfect.
I would be curios to know how far people have got with megasquirt regards reliability and cold start and running issues.
My car is a daily driver about 350 miles a week so buggering around is going to get old very quick if i have problems wityh the ecu so there is the security in uniq - however it seems a shame not to go wasted spark and sell on my megasquirt.
if i thought it could be setup well i would go with megasquirt -
Any thoughts welcome.
Megasquirt Users-input apreciated
Moderator: martauto
ms is an excellent system for the bmw, i have had it on both my e30s on N/A and also turbo'd, and cant speak highly enough of it, first one me and my mate fitted, bit fidly but not as bad as u would expect, and on my current e30 the ms was on it when i bought it, it was fitted by a guy in kent called ant (a-tech) definatelyreccomend him for fitting them and live mapping also, and ms can be far better then oem if it is set up by someone who is pretty clued up, ie ant. by the way what coil pack and injectors are u using?
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Speedtouch
- Old Skooler
- Posts: 14069
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 pm
- Location: Canterbury
My experience with it (MS1 + wasted spark on an '89 Sport) is that the cold start issue (mine currently has no ICV) is not at all bad at this time of year (warms up within half a mile or so) though you do have to slightly depress the throttle to start. It is a pain at times such as exiting a gated driveway onto a road particularly in poor/cold weather when it will stall unless you keep the throttle pushed until it has warmed up, otherwise it has been reliable and runs nicely with a pleasant induction sound as a result of not having an AFM, with excellent throttle response.
I plan to fit one of Flappysocks' (www.diyefi.co.uk) ICV driver boards soon...
I plan to fit one of Flappysocks' (www.diyefi.co.uk) ICV driver boards soon...
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
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Ant
- Retired Team Member
- Posts: 10496
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
- Location: PD+E dept :D
- Contact:
Liam has the following
Ms V3.0 PCB, with 3x coil ignitors on board, and the transistor is modded to run either a 3 wire OEM ICV, or the more compact 2 wire later type as per M40/42 etc
Biggest advantage of MS, its so expandable, and all on the same platform, and will upgrade ad infinitum.
Worries about reliabilty are always down to poor wiring in my experience, mapping is a pleasure too
Liam, your MS has a basemap on board for an M20B27 with a map thats is 5% safe rich and 2 degrees below MBT, it will run out of the box dude
If you want it fitted, I can cater no issues, but I'm fookin busy til early Aug
I'll take her to Sals or Charlie for final mapping if req ?
Uni-Q is great, but you WILL be tied to their dealer network for any mapping changes as and when required.
Choices choices
Ms V3.0 PCB, with 3x coil ignitors on board, and the transistor is modded to run either a 3 wire OEM ICV, or the more compact 2 wire later type as per M40/42 etc
Biggest advantage of MS, its so expandable, and all on the same platform, and will upgrade ad infinitum.
Worries about reliabilty are always down to poor wiring in my experience, mapping is a pleasure too
Liam, your MS has a basemap on board for an M20B27 with a map thats is 5% safe rich and 2 degrees below MBT, it will run out of the box dude
If you want it fitted, I can cater no issues, but I'm fookin busy til early Aug
I'll take her to Sals or Charlie for final mapping if req ?Uni-Q is great, but you WILL be tied to their dealer network for any mapping changes as and when required.
Choices choices
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.
Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies Email FTW
Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies
Email FTW-
Ant
- Retired Team Member
- Posts: 10496
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:00 pm
- Location: PD+E dept :D
- Contact:
flatbars is dead, click the Email icon dude ^
only you can make the decision dude, you know there's no hard sell
both products will do the job, no issues.
only you can make the decision dude, you know there's no hard sell
both products will do the job, no issues.
Product Development and Endurance for Delphi.
Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies Email FTW
Original performance chips, original works not unlicensed copies
Email FTW
I've been mapping lots of different engines for quite a while now both on my dyno and on the road.
When I started I was well in favour of standalone management. Some of the older members will remember I shelled out £1700 on MBE.
The more standalones I have mapped and the more I see the less I think it's such a good idea on cars which don't really need them.
Many tuners share my views about standalone systems.
The biggest problem is not cold starting, this can in time be over come but it will never be as good as a standard setup. An E30 in good working order will spring into life no matter what the temperature and will proceed to drive from cold without missing a beat nice and smoothly.
I see a huge number of cars visiting my dyno and may have had standalone management. Some have been mapped by some very highly respected tuners but they all suffer from problems.
My own experience has been that I found myself going towards carrying out all of the development work that a manufacturer would. After creating a brilliant base map the car I was working on still managed to be inconsistent in different weather conditions. Everything kept going out of tune.
I then delved into playing more and more with the compensation maps and adding more and more sensors.
In the end I had mapped for as many weather conditions as possible. However I have still not mapped for different altitudes. God knows how the engine would respond under very high altitudes combined with high temperatures.
Manufacturers spend a huge amount of money and time developing maps. Even the very primitive ECU's in E30's have excellent maps. The compensation maps are so important.
Compensation tables on the MS software is crude and this is true of many standalone systems.
The reason I now prefer uni-Q over standalone is because you keep everything the manufacturer has done, all the development work stays and I can then go in and map it live and change what I need to change.
No cold starts issues. No worries about varying temperatures or altitudes (as long as you stay within a safe limit on the timing).
If all you want to do is remove the AFM then going standalone brings nothing but compromises over something like the uni-Q.
Even turbo charged cars with bigger injectors are not a problem.
Only when things start getting really hairy do you need standalone. When the ECU's resolution is simply not enough or the way it works does not suit the new configuration of the engine do you have to have it.
The only standalone systems which I have seen which actually work really well are things like the Apexi Power FC in the Japenese market. They have all of the compensation maps the standard ECU's have and they come with excellent base maps. It's almost like they've copied the standard ECU's setting to a T.
For me standalone is the last option. I have all the setup and equipment to allow for me to sell standalone all day long and charge serious money for it.
My reasons for backing Uni-Q are very very good.
Not only can I convert cars to use a MAF sensor or be setup on pure Alpha N or Map sensor but I can have the choice of upto 5 switchable maps which can be switched over instantly by switch, dial or even bluetooth!
Cars with Superchargers and no AFM - no problem (infact very very easy!) Turbo charged cars - no problem.
As for being tied into the dealer network - there could be no better thing. I know a fair few people who have dabbled in mapping cars themselves and ended up damaging their engines.
Mapping properly is not easy. Doing it yourself is a false economy. You end up spending more fuel and you end up doing it all wrong doing it on the road most of the time.
I appreciate that there are those who want to map their cars themselves just for the satisfaction and that's fair enough. Standalone is ideal for you.
The fact is that MS and standalone carries with it a huge amount of misconceptions and I myself have in the past contributed to these misconceptions.
As mentioned above - I have access to standalone systems (MS, AEM, Motec, MBE....), Uni-Q, Split Second and many other systems. I make the same money on all of them as I charge pe the hour for mapping the systems.
My findings and experience in this area should be given some weight especially when I am not the only tuner with the same views.
I would also like to point out that I am not attempting to go head to head wih anyone over this especially Ant.
Do not under estimate your standard ECU's.
As an example the E30 M3 has one of the most primitive and basic ECU's around. Drive one with a Uni-Q fitted configured for no MAF and carbon airbox. You'll think it's been mapped by a manufacturer by the way it starts up and runs.
Thanks for reading.
Sal
When I started I was well in favour of standalone management. Some of the older members will remember I shelled out £1700 on MBE.
The more standalones I have mapped and the more I see the less I think it's such a good idea on cars which don't really need them.
Many tuners share my views about standalone systems.
The biggest problem is not cold starting, this can in time be over come but it will never be as good as a standard setup. An E30 in good working order will spring into life no matter what the temperature and will proceed to drive from cold without missing a beat nice and smoothly.
I see a huge number of cars visiting my dyno and may have had standalone management. Some have been mapped by some very highly respected tuners but they all suffer from problems.
My own experience has been that I found myself going towards carrying out all of the development work that a manufacturer would. After creating a brilliant base map the car I was working on still managed to be inconsistent in different weather conditions. Everything kept going out of tune.
I then delved into playing more and more with the compensation maps and adding more and more sensors.
In the end I had mapped for as many weather conditions as possible. However I have still not mapped for different altitudes. God knows how the engine would respond under very high altitudes combined with high temperatures.
Manufacturers spend a huge amount of money and time developing maps. Even the very primitive ECU's in E30's have excellent maps. The compensation maps are so important.
Compensation tables on the MS software is crude and this is true of many standalone systems.
The reason I now prefer uni-Q over standalone is because you keep everything the manufacturer has done, all the development work stays and I can then go in and map it live and change what I need to change.
No cold starts issues. No worries about varying temperatures or altitudes (as long as you stay within a safe limit on the timing).
If all you want to do is remove the AFM then going standalone brings nothing but compromises over something like the uni-Q.
Even turbo charged cars with bigger injectors are not a problem.
Only when things start getting really hairy do you need standalone. When the ECU's resolution is simply not enough or the way it works does not suit the new configuration of the engine do you have to have it.
The only standalone systems which I have seen which actually work really well are things like the Apexi Power FC in the Japenese market. They have all of the compensation maps the standard ECU's have and they come with excellent base maps. It's almost like they've copied the standard ECU's setting to a T.
For me standalone is the last option. I have all the setup and equipment to allow for me to sell standalone all day long and charge serious money for it.
My reasons for backing Uni-Q are very very good.
Not only can I convert cars to use a MAF sensor or be setup on pure Alpha N or Map sensor but I can have the choice of upto 5 switchable maps which can be switched over instantly by switch, dial or even bluetooth!
Cars with Superchargers and no AFM - no problem (infact very very easy!) Turbo charged cars - no problem.
As for being tied into the dealer network - there could be no better thing. I know a fair few people who have dabbled in mapping cars themselves and ended up damaging their engines.
Mapping properly is not easy. Doing it yourself is a false economy. You end up spending more fuel and you end up doing it all wrong doing it on the road most of the time.
I appreciate that there are those who want to map their cars themselves just for the satisfaction and that's fair enough. Standalone is ideal for you.
The fact is that MS and standalone carries with it a huge amount of misconceptions and I myself have in the past contributed to these misconceptions.
As mentioned above - I have access to standalone systems (MS, AEM, Motec, MBE....), Uni-Q, Split Second and many other systems. I make the same money on all of them as I charge pe the hour for mapping the systems.
My findings and experience in this area should be given some weight especially when I am not the only tuner with the same views.
I would also like to point out that I am not attempting to go head to head wih anyone over this especially Ant.
Do not under estimate your standard ECU's.
As an example the E30 M3 has one of the most primitive and basic ECU's around. Drive one with a Uni-Q fitted configured for no MAF and carbon airbox. You'll think it's been mapped by a manufacturer by the way it starts up and runs.
Thanks for reading.
Sal
I disagree.....Its Bloody awesome!! Fuel AND ignition timing with excellent MPG and drivability and power results..M5pilot wrote: As an example the E30 M3 has one of the most primitive and basic ECU's around. Drive one with a Uni-Q fitted configured for no MAF and carbon airbox. You'll think it's been mapped by a manufacturer by the way it starts up and runs.
Sal
Liam,
Stick your MS on, work slowely, ask loads of Q's and you'll get there, I have.
Never been to a RR, dyno or tuner and I'm running 10psi and no pinking at all.
Still getting 110 miles out of 20litres.
It took me quite a while to figure it, ended up building my own V3 at home to try and understand it more.
Once you get the wiring spot on, earths and power sorted you can take it slow and work up the map, adjusting and trying different things as you go.
I had issues with the coil pack, earths, wiring but all down to my lack of knowledge/understanding, so in a nut shell I learned the hard way, but either way I learned, not paid some one else to do it.
Believe it or not Ant has never touched my maps or even seen my car for well over a year so I'm happy to say I've sorted it myself and if I can do it ( failed electronics @ college with only 18% ) anyone can.
Once you get the hang of it you can feel the improvement and this spurs you on and builds confidence.
I'm fitting boost control and water injection soon, again I've never tried this before and it's all new to me too BUT I'm happy to have a go a I now I can work through the issues, like I did with all the other problems.
My car drive so smooth, much smoother than moronic ever did, better throttle response, more mpg's and loads of options to keep it going well under all conditions, like ign retard @ high intake temps and ign advance when cold etc.
I can't comment on any other system as I haven't used them.
HTH, Mark.
Stick your MS on, work slowely, ask loads of Q's and you'll get there, I have.
Never been to a RR, dyno or tuner and I'm running 10psi and no pinking at all.
Still getting 110 miles out of 20litres.
It took me quite a while to figure it, ended up building my own V3 at home to try and understand it more.
Once you get the wiring spot on, earths and power sorted you can take it slow and work up the map, adjusting and trying different things as you go.
I had issues with the coil pack, earths, wiring but all down to my lack of knowledge/understanding, so in a nut shell I learned the hard way, but either way I learned, not paid some one else to do it.
Believe it or not Ant has never touched my maps or even seen my car for well over a year so I'm happy to say I've sorted it myself and if I can do it ( failed electronics @ college with only 18% ) anyone can.
Once you get the hang of it you can feel the improvement and this spurs you on and builds confidence.
I'm fitting boost control and water injection soon, again I've never tried this before and it's all new to me too BUT I'm happy to have a go a I now I can work through the issues, like I did with all the other problems.
My car drive so smooth, much smoother than moronic ever did, better throttle response, more mpg's and loads of options to keep it going well under all conditions, like ign retard @ high intake temps and ign advance when cold etc.
I can't comment on any other system as I haven't used them.
HTH, Mark.
Wanna Job Fozzy ?
yeah i agree, once the ms is set up well there is excellent gains over the motronic system, and even with the 440cc injectors im running i still get reasonably good fuel economy, and the benefits with ms that you can learn so much about the system and management and mapping in general beacuse you have the oppurtunity to get involved with the process yourself, ie looking at the spark, ve table etc. learning why the tables are set up as they are, and also there is a large ms comunity, and i have found in the past everyone is very helpful, and any queries or problems are only just a question away........
Sal,M5pilot wrote:Wanna Job Fozzy ?
I would love to work in this industry but I haven't the right experiance or qaulifications to even consider a career change.
Just typical you all live so far away from me, although I would commute for £50k a year
sorry to hijack the thread but how would you rate the Maxx Alpha N for the e30 m3 Sal??M5pilot wrote: As an example the E30 M3 has one of the most primitive and basic ECU's around. Drive one with a Uni-Q fitted configured for no MAF and carbon airbox. You'll think it's been mapped by a manufacturer by the way it starts up and runs.
Thanks for reading.
Sal
eamo,
The Maxx is a good system for fuel only. It's easy to map and it's all open source.
However, your not going to get anywhere near the performance from just adjusting fuel alone.
We have done an M3 on Uni-Q and the results were excellent. Having the ignition maps done at the same time on a live basis allows for best power and efficiency under any given engine load.
Example:
E30 M3 215bhp model with Supersprint Exhaust already chipped - 204 bhp before carbon airbox and Uni-Q
under 215bhp with just fuelling adjusted
225 bhp with timing done and 190 lb.ft torque.
Just throwing in a chip for ignition timing with Maxx is really not the answer.
The cost different between the two is also not that big.
Uni-Q, with installation and full dyno/road mapping is £999. You can have upto 3 different swicthable maps in that price too.
The Maxx is a good system for fuel only. It's easy to map and it's all open source.
However, your not going to get anywhere near the performance from just adjusting fuel alone.
We have done an M3 on Uni-Q and the results were excellent. Having the ignition maps done at the same time on a live basis allows for best power and efficiency under any given engine load.
Example:
E30 M3 215bhp model with Supersprint Exhaust already chipped - 204 bhp before carbon airbox and Uni-Q
under 215bhp with just fuelling adjusted
225 bhp with timing done and 190 lb.ft torque.
Just throwing in a chip for ignition timing with Maxx is really not the answer.
The cost different between the two is also not that big.
Uni-Q, with installation and full dyno/road mapping is £999. You can have upto 3 different swicthable maps in that price too.