2.7 or 2.8, 2.7 it is Powered by Nelly, Finished

[cliffybabe]

Guys with the engine on the cab being f*cked looking like piston rings im now gonna ensure i have either a 2.7 or 2.8

My questions are

Whats easier to build??

Whats better value for money??

Which will be quicker to get done??

What would be a ruff cost??

Nelly and i chatted about using a ETA bottom end and a 2.5, will my 8855 head still be usable?? Theres no signs of over heating but im guessing replacing the valve stems would help also.

What ruff power would i see from a 2.7 or 2.8 adding my alpina 6branch and my bbtb

Where can i source a ETA bottom end if needed

thanks for ur help guys

Neil

[Jhonno]

Both about the same.. 2.8 marginally easier

2.8

2.8 I think, depends how quick you find a crank

Not sure, marginally more expensive than a standard rebuild

Yes it would be, slight skim and pop it on

2.7 - 190-200bhp
2.8 - Little bit more torque and power

Ebay?

[toby]

Thought you said you were getting a supercharger??

[cliffybabe]

maybe next year toby, but i want a strong engine

[isTURBO]

I'm busy with a 2.7 build at the moment. I've gone the 325 block and 325 head with an eta crank and eta conrods and 325 pistons.

That's an easy option 885 . You can also go the 731 setup with the eta bottom end and a 323 head which smacks bang on. I believe the power is around 190ish but lots of torque. Depending on the year of the eta bottom you could be looking at different CR's. Check out Andyboys sticky.

Incidently I may have an early eta block and pistons and rods as well and maybe even a 323 head. I should know by next week mate.

HTH

Rivaaj

[Chase007]

[ed325i]

I would go for the 2.8

[daimlerman]

Starting with a 325 I would go 2.8. Have a long look at the threads on building them that we have seen recently. You will need the correct crank and rods.If you are going down the supercharger route eventualy,get the engine right on this build to suit it.Your 885 head will be the correct one with your 325 pistons,but be aware there is currently a supply problem with valve guides,given your location and contacts Ant should be able to help here.Will you be getting your hands oily or letting another have the fun of building this?A decent N/A build with amild cam sould give around the 200bhp mark....

[stonesie]

2.8, i think theres somone selling a 2.8 crank in thier sig at the moment but can't remember who

[cliffybabe]

im gonna go with a 2.7 using the eta bottom end and 8855 325 head, wish me luck

[maxfield]

Chrome coated block

[cliffybabe]

Chrome coated block

na hammeright silver im thinking

[maxfield]

Sick sick puppy.

[cliffybabe]

Sick sick puppy.

its gotta look good though

[maxfield]

Every thing's got to be bling bling with you...

Not one bit of chrome on my car, just the way I like it

[mattG]

Hi Neil, what are your reasons for eta bottom end type build?

[essexboy]

Not one bit of chrome on my car, just the way I like it

you sure?

[e21Jason]

Hi

Use the eta crank 130mm rods 885 head and pistons + deck the block 2-3mm for the best results

or with the 2.8 you do not need to deck the bock but make a crank spacer


Jason

[oakey]

Cliffy- I have some custom JE pistons from my old 2.7 that would be useful for this

[isTURBO]

Hi

Use the eta crank 130mm rods 885 head and pistons + deck the block 2-3mm for the best results

or with the 2.8 you do not need to deck the bock but make a crank spacer


Jason

From my extremely limited knowledge I was always weary of having the block decked especially if I was going down the FI route. How much is really compromised by decking or is it just a cash saving technique?

[daimlerman]

Cliffy,eta bottom and 885 will only work properly with 325 pistons. See Andyboy's stickie.This is a potential minefield of expense.A stock eta short motor works best with the 320(or 731)head,this is the route I took. As you are starting with a 325, the 2.8 route makes economic sense,I paid £85 to have my eta crank reground,plus a further £35 for shells to match,for this you can buy the 2.8 crank and get a spacer machined....and end up with a far better engine for less overal cost.

[1an]

Neil, i believe Colin (Oze30) has a complete 2.7 set-up well he did a couple of months ago, might be worth a pm his way.

[Bavarian_Autotech]

2.8, i think theres somone selling a 2.8 crank in thier sig at the moment but can't remember who

andy325i has a low mileage one i think.
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... file&u=162

[maxfield]

ed325i has one as well IIRC.

[ed325i]

Yes I have one for sale.
crank and spacer.
Also got pistons and rods.

[cliffybabe]

gone for 2.7 eta bottom end off March109 and al new bits on it with my head all sorted thanks guys

[stuartgallafant]

I dont know too much about the M20 anchors but i've heard that the 2.8 is too 'square'. The 2.7 is more likely to be the more powerful, stronger engine due to its bore/stroke difference

depends what you want though really neil? you cahnge your mind more than your pants so i think you should build 6 engines and just keep swapping 'em round!!

[march109]

Dude the simple rule of thumb is there is no replacement for displacement a 2.8 will make more power than a 2.7 provided both builds are done properly with real money.

The 2.8 is fine, I've been in one, seen one and am building a 2.9 which is just an overbore on a 2.8. Look at Scott Players 2.8, Iain Temples 2.8 or Adams 2.8 all make better figures than equivelent 2.7 builds/spends. I know Adams is poor on power but then theres no room for the silly 6 branch ith his e36 rack that a stroker really needs to make good figures.

The 2.7 isn't bad though don't want to talk you out of buying mine , but its horses for courses, theres no point putting a big HP engine in a scuttle shaker, the 2.7 will be loverly with all its available torques and smooth power. Not to say a 2.8 wouldn't be all that, but then this is the easiest simplest and most cost effective solution for Cliffy.

To say a ETA bottom end won't work with a 325i head is just rubbish too, it goes straight on and doesn't give horrible compression either, as stated by Andyboy in his sticky. Granted you can't run big boost with this sort of engine spec because of the compression but when did that become an issue its never been proposed in this thread after all Cliffy doesn't want his chrome peeling off as the world flies by in a blur does he?

[cliffybabe]

cheers Gareth, look forward to seeing u on Sat

[reggid]

Dude the simple rule of thumb is there is no replacement for displacement a 2.8 will make more power than a 2.7 provided both builds are done properly with real money.

The 2.8 is fine, I've been in one, seen one and am building a 2.9 which is just an overbore on a 2.8. Look at Scott Players 2.8, Iain Temples 2.8 or Adams 2.8 all make better figures than equivelent 2.7 builds/spends. I know Adams is poor on power but then theres no room for the silly 6 branch ith his e36 rack that a stroker really needs to make good figures.

The 2.7 isn't bad though don't want to talk you out of buying mine , but its horses for courses, theres no point putting a big HP engine in a scuttle shaker, the 2.7 will be loverly with all its available torques and smooth power. Not to say a 2.8 wouldn't be all that, but then this is the easiest simplest and most cost effective solution for Cliffy.

To say a ETA bottom end won't work with a 325i head is just rubbish too, it goes straight on and doesn't give horrible compression either, as stated by Andyboy in his sticky. Granted you can't run big boost with this sort of engine spec because of the compression but when did that become an issue its never been proposed in this thread after all Cliffy doesn't want his chrome peeling off as the world flies by in a blur does he?

To be fair to the 2.7 vs 2.8 debate you should have mentioned Oz's car, it is a relatively simple conversion with good results, Scott's 2.8 is well beyond what most want and can afford so its not indicator that a 2.8 is better. What figures did Iain's 2.8 make?

The difference between a 2.8 and 2.7 is 3.7% so I wouldn't expect the difference to be overly large TBH probably some midrange. What's going to make the engine IMO is the cam, 6 branch, CR, tuning.

I would go with what easiest for the individual given parts they have access to. With a low comp m20b25 a 2.8L makes sense but if you have an eta bottom end it may be best to stick with a 2.7.

[cliffybabe]

cheers Reggid, The eta bottom is what im picking up

[dips346]

cliffy ,go for a strong n/a 2.7 ,high comp as poss and you will be happy with the right bits 220/230 can be done very easy

[reggid]

cliffy ,go for a strong n/a 2.7 ,high comp as poss and you will be happy with the right bits 220/230 can be done very easy

A genuine 230tq would be an unbelievable achievement and would be far from easy IMO, thats in excess of what a S54B32 makes in Tq / displacement (BMEP). Alpina claim 213lbft from a 2.7 and even that is excellent for a 2V street engine.

[dips346]

cliffy ,go for a strong n/a 2.7 ,high comp as poss and you will be happy with the right bits 220/230 can be done very easy

A genuine 230tq would be an unbelievable achievement and would be far from easy IMO, thats in excess of what a S54B32 makes in Tq / displacement (BMEP). Alpina claim 213lbft from a 2.7 and even that is excellent for a 2V street engine.

to get 220 bhp from a proper 2.7 is not that hard ,plenty on the zone ,

[reggid]

cliffy ,go for a strong n/a 2.7 ,high comp as poss and you will be happy with the right bits 220/230 can be done very easy

A genuine 230tq would be an unbelievable achievement and would be far from easy IMO, thats in excess of what a S54B32 makes in Tq / displacement (BMEP). Alpina claim 213lbft from a 2.7 and even that is excellent for a 2V street engine.

to get 220 bhp from a proper 2.7 is not that hard ,plenty on the zone ,

I agree.....but thats not what point i was making. Torque is a strong function of displacement and try and find any modern NA production engine that makes 85 lb-ft/L much less a 2V per cylinder one (hint you probably won't find any) and that hints as to how hard it is. Its much easier to make 220hp.