Which engine transplant?

[leeparkes]

I know 'dan the' knows a lot about M50/52, also jhonno,
i think the M50 inlet manifold needs a touch of modding to fit the M52 but its not rocket science!

[blackcountrybimmerman]

On some of the later engines, are some of the parts standardized? Are you able to interchange between engines?

what do you mean? manifolds

Not just manifolds.

Cloud is using an M52 crank. Onto an M20 engine?

[Cloud]

Not just manifolds.

Cloud is using an M52 crank. Onto an M20 engine?

Yep.

It's a fairly straightforward fit. Head, block, and pistons are M20. Conrods are M20 from a two litre engine. Crank is M52. It needs a custom fabricated oil seal for the crank shaft, but I got "some bloke" to knock me one up for about £30.

[leeparkes]

Yep.

It's a fairly straightforward fit. Head, block, and pistons are M20. Conrods are M20 from a two litre engine. Crank is M52. It needs a custom fabricated oil seal for the crank shaft, but I got "some bloke" to knock me one up for about £30.[/quote]

what head are you using?

[Cloud]

what head are you using?

325i

It's the only one that'll accept the funny shape 325i pistons.

[leeparkes]

what head are you using?

325i

It's the only one that'll accept the funny shape 325i pistons.

so the combination is
325i block
325i pistons
325i head
M52/b28 crank

what con rods?

what power would this put out (no other mods)

[Cloud]

M20B20 conrods (because the crank stroke is longer, it'll send the pistons up into the head and jam the engine. B20 rods are shorter, and are surprisingly perfect for compression ratio) and power output for just that is... 200 or so. 2.7s are good for 185 to 190.

[blackcountrybimmerman]

All of these parts are easy to source?

[leeparkes]

M20B20 conrods (because the crank stroke is longer, it'll send the pistons up into the head and jam the engine. B20 rods are shorter, and are surprisingly perfect for compression ratio) and power output for just that is... 200 or so. 2.7s are good for 185 to 190.

ive realised i have all the bits lying about,(bar the crank) to build one of these!
i asked about the head as i also have a 731 2.0 head doing nothing and i know this can be used in the 2.7 build

mmm...

[blackcountrybimmerman]

M20B20 conrods (because the crank stroke is longer, it'll send the pistons up into the head and jam the engine. B20 rods are shorter, and are surprisingly perfect for compression ratio) and power output for just that is... 200 or so. 2.7s are good for 185 to 190.

ive realised i have all the bits lying about,(bar the crank) to build one of these!
i asked about the head as i also have a 731 2.0 head doing nothing and i know this can be used in the 2.7 build

mmm...

Bloody Hell Lee,

How big is your shed?.....lol

[Cloud]

All of these parts are easy to source?

Nope.

You'll probably have an effa of a job trying to get an M52 crank.
You may also have trouble finding someone to make the oil seal.

[leeparkes]

M20B20 conrods (because the crank stroke is longer, it'll send the pistons up into the head and jam the engine. B20 rods are shorter, and are surprisingly perfect for compression ratio) and power output for just that is... 200 or so. 2.7s are good for 185 to 190.

Bloody Hell Lee,

How big is your shed?.....lol

ive realised i have all the bits lying about,(bar the crank) to build one of these!
i asked about the head as i also have a 731 2.0 head doing nothing and i know this can be used in the 2.7 build

mmm...

lol
its been worse

[Cloud]

I've just noticed, Lee and Alan, you're from the same place.

[leeparkes]

I've just noticed, Lee and Alan, you're from the same place.

we live about a mile away from each other!

[Cloud]

we live about a mile away from each other!

That's a 30 second drive in an M30 powered E30.

[Jhonno]

B20 head won't work with a 2.8 conversion, it'll be like trying to put the B20 head on a B25, which is a no go

[reggid]

S50B32 (as opposed to S52 which essentially is M50B32) would be my choice as IMO it's BMW best allround engine (torque, power, response, economy, looks hot) that commonly finds its way into a E30 so the knowledge on how to do it is already there.

[Cloud]

B20 head won't work with a 2.8 conversion, it'll be like trying to put the B20 head on a B25, which is a no go

Unless you use B20 pistons.

[Cloud]

S50B32 (as opposed to S52 which essentially is M50B32) would be my choice as IMO it's BMW best allround engine (torque, power, response, economy, looks hot) that commonly finds its way into a E30 so the knowledge on how to do it is already there.

How did you get 261BHP from a 3.1 M20? Magic?

[Jhonno]

B20 head won't work with a 2.8 conversion, it'll be like trying to put the B20 head on a B25, which is a no go

Unless you use B20 pistons.

In which case you wont have a B28..

[Cloud]

The difference between pistons is minimal, it's only a matter of about 17cc if you use B20 ones to B25 ones. There's not much point building a 2.8 with a B20 head though. The valves are small, and the valve springs are gentle, and the engine management is more relaxed. It'd be more torquey than a standard B25, but not much more power.

[Jhonno]

The difference between pistons is minimal, it's only a matter of about 17cc if you use B20 ones to B25 ones. There's not much point building a 2.8 with a B20 head though. The valves are small, and the valve springs are gentle, and the engine management is more relaxed. It'd be more torquey than a standard B25, but not much more power.

Actually it is a lot more than 17cc..

3.14 x r^2 x stroke x 6

Bore = 80mm using B20 pistons, 84mm using B25 pistons..

[Cloud]

Well if the bore is different, the pistons wont fit anyway..?

[Jhonno]

Yes, but ideally you would start with a B20 block for nice fresh bores..

Anyway, regardless of whether they would fit or not, I was just correcting your inaccuracy

[Cloud]

Right. So what's best for me to do, then?
I have a B20 block, should I put the B25 head onto that, rather than using the B25 block?
(in short, I have two complete engines, from a 320i and from a 325i)

[Jhonno]

If you use a B20 block you need to get it bored to 84mm, this is where my nice fresh bore comment came in, guaranteed straight etc.. This is the best option imo

[Cloud]

If you use a B20 block you need to get it bored to 84mm, this is where my nice fresh bore comment came in, guaranteed straight etc.. This is the best option imo

Aaah, right! I see.
Thanks, I'll look into this. Since I'm going mad with tuning, I want and need the block to be the best it can be. It's not something I'd considered, or even knew was possible. Thanks.

[reggid]

S50B32 (as opposed to S52 which essentially is M50B32) would be my choice as IMO it's BMW best allround engine (torque, power, response, economy, looks hot) that commonly finds its way into a E30 so the knowledge on how to do it is already there.

How did you get 261BHP from a 3.1 M20? Magic?

using the usual techniques.

Bigger capacity, 11:1 compression, Bigger cam, Tuned exhaust manifold, Free flowing exhaust, Custom remap, BBTB, Ported cylinder head.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 83#1056183

[blackcountrybimmerman]

This has all got very technical...

I'm not into engine re-builds and such like, I just don't have the room to do it.

So a 3.5l engine out of an old 7 series (218 bhp) would make my E30 pretty nippy?

[leeparkes]

This has all got very technical...

I'm not into engine re-builds and such like, I just don't have the room to do it.

So a 3.5l engine out of an old 7 series (218 bhp) would make my E30 pretty nippy?

3.5 engine (m30) would make the E30 hit 60 in about 6.5 seconds (with the right diff)

[Cloud]

Alpina used an M30 in the B6. Very tasty performance in that.
It'd be my engine of choice, if I weren't tuning my M20.

[youtube][/youtube]

[blackcountrybimmerman]

This has all got very technical...

I'm not into engine re-builds and such like, I just don't have the room to do it.

So a 3.5l engine out of an old 7 series (218 bhp) would make my E30 pretty nippy?

3.5 engine (m30) would make the E30 hit 60 in about 6.5 seconds (with the right diff)

I still don't know if mine has an LSD. I haven't had time to mess about with it.

6.5 seconds is pretty nippy aint it.

Even as standard we're looking on the right side of 8 seconds though aren't we...

Not bad from a marque that is nearly 30 years old.

[blackcountrybimmerman]

I'm liking all those YouTube clips.

[leeparkes]

this might be interesting for you alan

http://www.e30.de/

click on 335,then english version!

[blackcountrybimmerman]

this might be interesting for you alan

http://www.e30.de/

click on 335,then english version!

Nice one Lee.