325i Touring restoration "the wrong way around"

[ian332isport]

Is this : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brake-Master-Cyli ... dZViewItem

a suitable 23.8mm one (for E30M3 brakes)?

Looks right, I think.

Jai

needs to be 25mm

Just to clarify. You only need the 25mm cylinder if fitting calipers with more piston area. If you still have the standard calipers, you don't need the 25mm cylinder.

Ian.

[jaistanley]

Yea, I need the 25mm master cylinder to match my MZRoadster (same as E36 M3Evo) brakes.

I posted the link to the 23.8mm for Old_Skool as he's using the E30 M3 brakes. Obviously fitting the 25mm to the M3 brakes is valid as it'll give a nice firm pedal, just that it may be too firm with the small servo.

Jai

[whipsey]

attention to detail is amazing how many hours have been spent on this so far and at what cost?

[Assault]

Are you moving the Servo so that it clears the Plenum without modification?

I've got a golf MkII 1.3 servo and audi 25mm master cylinder, will I need to move it over to clear the plenum? If so, how far does it need to be moved?

[old_skool]

Are you moving the Servo so that it clears the Plenum without modification?

I've got a golf MkII 1.3 servo and audi 25mm master cylinder, will I need to move it over to clear the plenum? If so, how far does it need to be moved?

Buster has fitted the Golf servo over approx 25mm, iirc. He still had to cut the plenum on his. From the discussions we have had (read above) I guessed that moving the servo over 57mm would be plenty and still retain some tolerance for engine movement.

Meanwhile..

The issue with the pull rod is finally solved.

I got the E34 pushrod PN 35211156454 last week but didn't have time to do anything with it. I have considered all other options but wanted to do something that didn't involve cutting and welding the bar. There would be tears over the cornflakes if it ever broke away

So, here it is. I cut the E34 rod down by 35mm on the pedal box end - Do not cut the servo end as it is reverse threaded! The E30 linkages look identical to the new ones supplied with the E34 rod but they are not. The slots in the E30 links are 7.2mm, 9.2mm for the E34. So chuck the new ones away and use the E30 items - see pic:



Incidentally, the standard VW linkage on the Golf servo is also 9.2mm so swap that for the E30 item as well.

The I just ran a M10x1.5 die down the bar until it nearly touched the crushed adjuster parts:



Closer:



As you can see the thread isn't very steep, that's because the rod decreases in diameter in it's main length. It is however enough to cut and hold a reasonable thread. The E34 rod comes with a locknut fitted, I used this on my E30 rod for extra security. (E30 doesn't have one as standard)

Next job is to drill the linkage through and fit a roll pin for extra security.

Hopefullt this weekend I can get the brakes parts refitted and start piping it all in

[gareth]

that thread looks a little hairy... do you have plenty of thread engagement? what is the OD on the 'new' section, before running the die down?

[old_skool]

that thread looks a little hairy... do you have plenty of thread engagement? what is the OD on the 'new' section, before running the die down?

Yes, it looks worse than it is, I tightened it back to the locknut with no problems.

The OD of the bar is 8.8mm (ideally 9.6 would have been nice) and I cut it with a M10x1.5 adjustable die. I took the grub screw out of the die to cut as tight as I could. I am going to drill a 4mm roll pin through the whole assembly though so that should do the trick.

For added security I could also weld the inside of the linkage as it is tapped all the way through.

EDIT:

Come to think of it I guess it would have been possible to have run the bar down to M8 then used and M10 helicoil in side the linkage?

[gareth]

a pin and some welding would be pretty secure i reckon. just make sure it's set right before you do it!

[Brianmoooore]

This is similar to mine and I've no issues with the slightly flat topped thread. There's a very long female thread in the linkage and as long as you cut the pull rod to take full advantage of this, I can't see a problem.

[g57yle]

Hi, im not really 100% knowledgable with servos, but wont having a smaller servo affect your braking?

Does anybody know what the pro's and con's of a larger and smaller servo are?

We all know the smaller servo gives us more room. LOL.....

Thanks

Gary

[jaistanley]

A servo is basically a diaphragm inside a sealed box. One side is exposed to the atmosphere and the other to the vacumm of the engine. When the vacuum side is a lower pressure that the other the atmospheric pressure pushes on the diaphragm and assists the effort from the operator.

A smaller servo has a smaller surface area and therefore less force is produced at the master cylinder for the same pedal input (force is a fucntion of pressure and area remember).

A small servo means it takes more effort at the pedal to produce the same pressure in the braking system so the pedal feels 'harder'. This can actually be a good thing. How many times have you got into a modern car and found it hard to modulate the brakes because it's far too easy to press the pedal? Well the opposite is true. In cars where it feels like you're having to press the pedal very hard you generally have a lot more modulation (control) of the braking force. The worry is that if the servo is too small it takes too much effort and you cant brake enough.

In my MK2 golf I gave the braking a serious upgrade with fast road disks, pads and braided hose. The disks were G60 (280mm) and the calipers from an early VR6 and so required a 22mm master cylinder (the same as the rear calipers on my MK2 which meant my brake balance was kept spot on). I then fitted an Audi 23.8mm master cylinder and the servo from a non GTi.

People used to get into my car and nearly crash when they first pressed the pedal and nothing appeared to happen.. In fact they were AMAZING brakes, you just had to press them very hard. I got used to it in no-time and they fely perfectly normal to me. In fact I dont think I ever locked the wheels up. Even in the wet you could progressively press the brakes harder and harder till you approached lock-up and still be in control.

I think as long as you have upgraded your brakes, made sure the balance between front and rear brake piston diameters is right (easiest way is to use 'matching' calipers ie from same car) and everything is in tip top condition, there should be no problem using these smaller servos.

I'm going for a large master cylinder (25mm, the same as the calipers had in their natural habitat - an MCoupé) and small servo but the brakes will be large (315mm by 28mm front, 312 by 20mm vented front and rear) so I dont anticipate any problems.

Jai

[Brianmoooore]

There is the odd tandem servo around, which has two diaphrams working together. The E30 iX had one of these, and would be ideal for S5X conversions.

[g57yle]

There is the odd tandem servo around, which has two diaphrams working together. The E30 iX had one of these, and would be ideal for S5X conversions.

Hi Brian, were the IX servos smaller? or were they just more powerful?

[Brianmoooore]

Much smaller. There's pics on here if you go back through the "servo" threads.

[g57yle]

Much smaller. There's pics on here if you go back through the "servo" threads.

Hi mate. ive looked but i can fine them, is it possible you could point me in the right direction?

[Andy335Touring]

Hi mate. ive looked but i can fine them, is it possible you could point me in the right direction?

Heres the ones i've got saved on my H/D

[gareth]

those look very neat. a search on ebay.de usually pulls up a few, though you have to search in german!!!

[old_skool]

It's been a while and for those of you how have been wondering, I'm still at it.

All in all, I've done quite a lot in the past few weeks considering I haven't had as much time as I'd have liked. Here are some of the more interesting bits:

Bulkhead reinforcement plates finally finished and mounted. There are two of these. One each side of the bulkhead. I zinc plated then yellow passivated them as "original" BMW finish.



The servo bracket caused a lot of really small problems, but this has had the new fixing points re punched and has been powdercoated:







Audi M/C fitted after being beadblasted. This now gives me the tolerance needed to avoid cutting the S50 Plenum



Started to refit and work out the wiring:



Also got the E30 M3 front struts stripped down and blasted/powercoated too:



And the engine subframe:



FUel filler pipe of all things!



More bits arrived from Germany today:



Fuel pipes:

[brian325i]

no shortcuts taken...proper job..

fairplay

[Jon_Bmw]

This is so

I need to be seeing this in the flesh some day. What colour have you painted the stuts/subframe/fuel components, it looks like diamond black to me. Uber cool.

Jon

[jkarran]

Very impressive attantion to detail
jk

[Jhonno]

Awesome!! I like.. Alot!

[CaesarBob]

Fantastic. This really is going to end up being a brand new E30.

Dare i ask what you spent on original BMW parts already????

[buster]

top work mate,i was wondering what you were up to.

P.S did you get my pm ?
If not then it dont matter,i fixed that abs ring,its as good as new now !

[old_skool]

Fantastic. This really is going to end up being a brand new E30.

Dare i ask what you spent on original BMW parts already????

Thanks Bob,

To be honest I am forever amazed at the compariatively low cost of genuine BMW parts. I guess around £1600.00 so far, although when I eventually get to trim, seals, glass etc. that is going to get expensive!

Interestingly out of all the things I have ordered, the battery cable that goes from the boot to the "phantom" terminal is on back order. I was interested to know what that really meant. They explained that there are none in the UK and Germany and one has been ordered from the original manufacturer and if necessary they will make another one. You don't get that service with Ford!

Although I am fitting many new genuine bits, I am also refinishing a lot of stuff where I can, for a number of reasons. Firstly there are some parts that can be better than new 'so say' more than genuine bits. For example, suspension components are wet painted from new, whereas powdercoating is superior. Secondly, I am doing my bit by recycling what I can!

[old_skool]

top work mate,i was wondering what you were up to.

P.S did you get my pm ?
If not then it dont matter,i fixed that abs ring,its as good as new now !

Sorry mate I guess it wasn't too important though?

Glad you sorted the ABS ring out. Did you have to take it off the hub to weld it up?

[buster]

top work mate,i was wondering what you were up to.

P.S did you get my pm ?
If not then it dont matter,i fixed that abs ring,its as good as new now !

Sorry mate I guess it wasn't too important though?

Glad you sorted the ABS ring out. Did you have to take it off the hub to weld it up?

No i got a friend to weld it for me,very little heat put into it.Then used a dremmel to finish it.It didnt actually take too long considering i had to recut 3 grooves.Looks spot on now.

[ian332isport]

Dameon,

Are the replacement fuel flow and return pipes also aluminium like my replacement breather pipe ?

Ian.

[old_skool]

Dameon,

Are the replacement fuel flow and return pipes also aluminium like my replacement breather pipe ?

Ian.

Ian,

No, they are all steel pipes. Strange I know

BTW you have urgent PM.

[buster]

Any further on with the engine going in then or the wiring ?

[old_skool]

Any further on with the engine going in then or the wiring ?

No, I look at the engine sat there every day looking lovely. To be honest I've even considered dropping it in to something else while I'm doing this. I've read your thread so many times I reckon I could do an S50 in my sleep now

The engine subframe is here now and I have all the mounts. Is all I need to do is remove the emissions pump and blank the head with the South African spec. plate, do the rod bolts, fit the new oil pump and chain, change to the E34 sump and remake the engine wiring plugs which Ian has been great help with.

I'm looking forward to putting the engine in and being back in familiar territory to be honest. All this prep work is driving me mad.

I got the linkages to the servo and pedal box refitted today and fitted all new gaskets for the bulkhead. Hopefully tomorrow I can refit the steering column and sort out some of main loom which has been chopped around in the past.

I'm going to start looking around for wheels next week to cheer myself up. Where is the best place to source BBS genuine rims?

[DanThe]

Where are you planning on mounting the S50 ECU?

[Jhonno]

Ebay will usually throw something up..

[buster]

im in the process of buying some bbs now.hopefully have them soon.

[old_skool]

Where are you planning on mounting the S50 ECU?

No idea yet. I haven't really got that far. Most likely by the steering column mount where the standard ECU lived.

Buster, Ian, where did you put yours. Have you got any pics?