2.7 Turbo with Dyno Plot!

[Ant]

Rebuilt 2-5 sport box Gunni, std prop with new joints and guibo, Polybushed subframe bushes and KW coilovers with Koni dampers, beefed up clutch plate and cover.

In the dry its not bad for traction, might be slightly better with less negative camber on the rear wheels though..

The diff seems to act like a drag locker given some proper abuse of the loud pedal.

Slightly O/T but Fowelrs has destroyed most of his driveline in 2K miles, might need to turn the boost down

[Jhonno]

Slightly O/T but Fowelrs has destroyed most of his driveline in 2K miles, might need to turn the boost down

turn the drivetrain up!!

[Gunni]

Rebuilt 2-5 sport box Gunni, std prop with new joints and guibo, Polybushed subframe bushes and KW coilovers with Koni dampers, beefed up clutch plate and cover.

In the dry its not bad for traction, might be slightly better with less negative camber on the rear wheels though..

The diff seems to act like a drag locker given some proper abuse of the loud pedal.

Slightly O/T but Fowelrs has destroyed most of his driveline in 2K miles, might need to turn the boost down

Alright, next questions what tires and sizes?
I´m just trying to picture the car in my mind.

So in the dry it does not loose traction going from vacuum to boost?

[Ant]

215/40Z17 iirc, s-lines defo, possibly 10mm wider on the rear.

I didn't drive the car much at all Gunni, I think without the sport box ratios the jump from 2nd to 3rd would be interesting.

[Gunni]

I´m not talking about between gear changes but in gear transition.
as I know people usually do have traction issues when boosting only 10psi, i.e
it starts spinning in the tires from accelaration rate only

[gadjit]

Hi Gunni

Tyre sizes are 215 / 35 / 17 front
225 / 35 / 17 all are yoko s-lines

Did not have any issues too much to shout about during its test thrash, back end stepped out a few times due to a huge Right foot problem i have as i came out of bends in boost , wailing like a banshee, The Diff as mentioned was a special made to order for a customer of Nigel's @ Mosely Motorsport, to be truthful he did say it was probably too good and special to be placed on anything other than a full on race prepped car,, The guy who ordered this diff ran out of money before being able to complete his project, the diff apparantly cost this geezer £1450. and was totally brand new when i picked it up, also had to purchase E36 M3 diff oil,

Hope this sheds some more light,,

I see you are only in derby,

Im only at Bramcote, Nottingham.

Next Play shall be sat morning weather permitting, can meet up if you like and let you have a close up.

Gary

[Gunni]

Your my next door neighbour .
Please send me a pm when you have the car out and about.
I´d love to come see it.

[gadjit]

No Probs dude,

Hopefully should get a play either sat or sun,,

Will get my number over to you via pm.

Pass me urs and i can call you to let you know whats occuring.

Gary

[fowler]

gary looks like you are having fun squire yes mine has decided to kill nearly all its drive train, well it looks like it will have to come off and go even faster, more goodies please Ant !!!!!!

[rosscoe]

Fckn hell

thats some output from an m20

bet it sounds awsome

well done all involved

[DieselMeister]

****!

So, does this mean that an M20 is a better bet than low comp M30?

I've tossing around the idea of a fast E30 for a couple of years (principally with a view to an S50) but I really like the idea of an "overspecced" rebuild to about 350bhp.

Ant, you have a very serious and potentially lucrative PM

[Gunni]

No
1bar on a 3.5 is definitely going to make more power then a 2.5 at 1bar.

3.5 should be making 350whp and 380lbs of torque to the wheels.
And that´s on absolutely stock internals.

And the biggest diffrence is the size of the powerband, the 3.5 will be getting boost sooner a same size turbo
and the powerband will thus be longer.

[DieselMeister]

I don't doubt any of the above, but lets make it interesting and ask how easy to build a super-strong M30 capable of, say 450-500hp at the wheels? Also, while I can see short cuts in the M20 route through TD crank etc. what about a 2.8 or 3 litre M20? Or an M50? I guess boils down to the famed quip "speed costs - how fast do you want to go?" etc.

A forced S50 is all well and nice but that's getting expensive before you even factor in any internal mods. Although I guess a good SC would be a bolt on, for up to a safe 400hp at the wheels. Maybe.

So what's the spec on your car Gunni?

[Gunni]

My car?

You mean my E30 M3 Europameister?
You mean my E30 with a Nissan 200sx CA18DET engine?
You mean my E30 M20B25?

a 3.5 could do with ARP bolts and a MLS gasket before trying out for 450whp, still stock pistons and rods.
not stock clutch of course or engine management.

M50B25 in it´s simplest form will make 320whp at 11psi with the right turbo on a stock stock stock engine,

I do have two S50´s at home that will get blown in one way or another,
I´m thinking 500hp for the daily via whipple charger, and the other one
in a e30 m3 around 800hp+., Both need alot of work done and all will come eventually.
But that is not up for discussion as that´s not happening in another 3-5years.

[Toby_Unna]

Dieselmeister,

i'd go with what Gunni said re 3.5 vs 2.5. with forged crank etc as standard and a litre more capacity it's a better bet for outright power and shouldn't cost more than an M20 to put together in terms of the turbo system. my system is frankly pretty crap in terms of manifold design/turbo design/small downpipe and it still goes pretty well.

the downside is the hassle and cost of fitting the engine to begin with, and of course a little extra weight over the front.

what i would say though, is that while i don't spend much of my life worrying about bits breaking, i would be concerned about 500bhp and god knows how much torque through an E30 drivetrain. the standard M30 box might take it but the clutch probably won't - mine's ok, but trying to slip it to keep the revs up for a quick start is a no-no, once it's on boost it just gets cooked!. similar story with e30m3 prop, e30 diff and driveshafts - i'd be thinking about a custom prop and rebuilding the rear subframe to fit an e28 m535i diff.

what i'm trying to say is, if you're really after 500bhp then beefing up the rest of the car to cope might make the cost of the engine a bit less significant

[DieselMeister]

Toby - oh yeah, defo re. beefing up. I was just thinking out loud really. No needs for more than 350-400bhp in a daily driver

I'm interested to see whether a this is a better bet than joining the "me too" brigade and buying a Skyline GTR. 500bhp doesn interest me as much as having a super-safe 350-400bhp without needing to rebuild the entire car.

M30 sounds good. In a tourer to balance some of the weight maybe. I'm due to give Ant a call today but my desk jockey existence means I hemmed in by meeting. Bah.

[Karan]

wow just read this!!!

amazing stuff ant!!! really really impressive

always wanted to see power possible froma well done turbod 2.7, torque must be unbelieveable. must be quicker than pretty much all supercars 911 turbos included!! incredible

in the dry anyway!

[M5pilot]

Gary's car is a monster.

While it is quick I'm afraid a 911 Turbo (996 and onwards) will be long gone way before Gary's car comes on boost. Even on boost a standard 420 bhp 996 will win hands down.

996's have more power, torque and a much much wider power band and weigh not much more than an E30.

They also put down more power than quoted.

[gcorky]

looks coool,gary,well done Ant...what happened with the h1c?

[gareth]

i suppose the weight of the engine behind the rear bumper helps get the power down on a porka too. i suspect this particular E30 is a little more lively!