Hmmmm, bit much, do I really need it?
The only reason I wanted to do it was because my friend gave me a free coil pack. Not sure I want to bother now.
318i M40 turbo 190bhp@8psi *Breaking*
Moderator: martauto
Much?
25pounds is probably the cheapest solution I know of ignition wise.
And it´s brand new.
25pounds is probably the cheapest solution I know of ignition wise.
And it´s brand new.
If you are not getting missfires with the original coil then no you don´t.
What the gains might be is to be able to run as large as possible plug gap. This helps burn fuel to the outter reaches of the pistons surface and you can run less ignition advance to reach the same power as before.
If you want one of those coils you can always go to a junk yard and get one real cheap.
the 6cyl versions will handle at least 650hp or at least 110hp per cylinder.
that´s at least 440hp on a 4cyl
This will however save you purchasing a ignition cap and rotor. Both of wich are more expensive then 25pounds, You could also run a M42 CNP(coil near plug) setup.
What the gains might be is to be able to run as large as possible plug gap. This helps burn fuel to the outter reaches of the pistons surface and you can run less ignition advance to reach the same power as before.
If you want one of those coils you can always go to a junk yard and get one real cheap.
the 6cyl versions will handle at least 650hp or at least 110hp per cylinder.
that´s at least 440hp on a 4cyl
This will however save you purchasing a ignition cap and rotor. Both of wich are more expensive then 25pounds, You could also run a M42 CNP(coil near plug) setup.
I was getting spark blow out at 8psi, so I got some colder plug and closed the gap slighty. When I did this it leaned out the map. I added 20% across the map and tuned the afr's down.
Why did it lean out?
Are you saying a 6cyl coil pack would be better for me than a 4cyl pack?
Why did it lean out?
Are you saying a 6cyl coil pack would be better for me than a 4cyl pack?
No not at all, I´m just qouting what I know to be possible with these coil packs.
If must have leaned out cause your where getting alot more effective burn with the second set of plugs and correctly gapped.
I have never seen it change that much though.
If must have leaned out cause your where getting alot more effective burn with the second set of plugs and correctly gapped.
I have never seen it change that much though.
-
fowler
- Boost Junkie
- Posts: 3468
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: New Addington/Croydon
- Contact:
use a coil pack of a peugeot or citreon and you can have massive spark gap plus it makes the car alot nice to drive with better pickup and throttle response
trust me i know it seams like its not worth it but when it all works well the m40 turbo is a hell of a toy i wish i hd not sold mine now
trust me i know it seams like its not worth it but when it all works well the m40 turbo is a hell of a toy i wish i hd not sold mine now
EX A-Tech Workshop bitch !!!
325i Turbo touring (Aka Project Fridge)
gone but not forgotten
325i Turbo touring (Aka Project Fridge)
gone but not forgotten
Chu, I'd also consider whether your two igniter circuits are strong enough to pump the required current into the primary windings of your coils in order to give you a strong enough spark when the ignitor switches open.
BTW, Ignitors (unlike CDI's) work very much like those toy aeroplanes with rubber bands on the propellor. When the ignitor "switch" closes it supplies an electric current to the primary (low voltage) winding of the chosen ignition coil, effectively winding up the rubber band. When the "switch" opens the rubber band rapidly unwinds, and all the energy stored in the magnetic core (the rubber band) of the coil is dumped into the spark plug out through the secondary (high voltage) side of the coil. This is very different to how a CDI (capacitor discharge ignition) works.
The reason I say all this is beacuse the coil packs intened for use with an ignitor type circuit are very different to those used with a CDI. So beware which type you have! Make sure you have a coil pack intended for use with a good old fashioned low voltage electronic ignition (that uses an ignitor type circuit like you have) and not one that is intended for use with a CDI. There's a good chance that you might be better off with one of those coil packs that Fowler recommended (although I don't know these personally).
Also, I assume you can control the amount of time you switch each ignitor "switch" on for in your ECU software (called the dwell time)? This is important because the dwell time determines how hard you wind up the rubber band in each coil, and therefore controls the strength of your spark when the rubber band unwinds.
In general: Longer dwell time = Stronger spark, except when a) the current through your ignitor "switch" is "limited" by some curent control feature on your hardware, or b) the current is limited by the electrcial resistance of the coils primary winding.
However, be warned. For reasons that I will not go into here, it is never a good idea to extend your dwell time longer than is required to get your engine to run properly as this can damage your ignitor circuit.
And FYI, the dwell time for your wasted spark ignition will likely be LONGER than the dwell time for your single coil setup because a) each ignitor circuit is now driving two coils (is winding up more than one rubber band) and b) your new coils have very different electrical properties to your old single coil (use a different type of rubber band).
And if all the above fails, change the rubber bands in the coils
BTW, Ignitors (unlike CDI's) work very much like those toy aeroplanes with rubber bands on the propellor. When the ignitor "switch" closes it supplies an electric current to the primary (low voltage) winding of the chosen ignition coil, effectively winding up the rubber band. When the "switch" opens the rubber band rapidly unwinds, and all the energy stored in the magnetic core (the rubber band) of the coil is dumped into the spark plug out through the secondary (high voltage) side of the coil. This is very different to how a CDI (capacitor discharge ignition) works.
The reason I say all this is beacuse the coil packs intened for use with an ignitor type circuit are very different to those used with a CDI. So beware which type you have! Make sure you have a coil pack intended for use with a good old fashioned low voltage electronic ignition (that uses an ignitor type circuit like you have) and not one that is intended for use with a CDI. There's a good chance that you might be better off with one of those coil packs that Fowler recommended (although I don't know these personally).
Also, I assume you can control the amount of time you switch each ignitor "switch" on for in your ECU software (called the dwell time)? This is important because the dwell time determines how hard you wind up the rubber band in each coil, and therefore controls the strength of your spark when the rubber band unwinds.
In general: Longer dwell time = Stronger spark, except when a) the current through your ignitor "switch" is "limited" by some curent control feature on your hardware, or b) the current is limited by the electrcial resistance of the coils primary winding.
However, be warned. For reasons that I will not go into here, it is never a good idea to extend your dwell time longer than is required to get your engine to run properly as this can damage your ignitor circuit.
And FYI, the dwell time for your wasted spark ignition will likely be LONGER than the dwell time for your single coil setup because a) each ignitor circuit is now driving two coils (is winding up more than one rubber band) and b) your new coils have very different electrical properties to your old single coil (use a different type of rubber band).
And if all the above fails, change the rubber bands in the coils
"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
A 4cyl wasted spark coil only has two coils.
And it charges no more then a single coil.
You can actually use normal coils with CDI no problem as there is a basically just a voltage difference(I have never ever heard of a CDI only coil). Instead of the 12v charge the CDI box does a 400V charge into the coil resulting in faster charge time and faster discharge as well as higher voltage at the spark plug, upwards of 100k volts against the normal 50k volts best. This makes it easier for the spark to jump a bigger gap/denser air.
Are you talking about coils with built in igniters and them not taking the same type of signal as a normal coil(i.e a 12v square wave instead of a 12v grounding to start the charging)
And it charges no more then a single coil.
You can actually use normal coils with CDI no problem as there is a basically just a voltage difference(I have never ever heard of a CDI only coil). Instead of the 12v charge the CDI box does a 400V charge into the coil resulting in faster charge time and faster discharge as well as higher voltage at the spark plug, upwards of 100k volts against the normal 50k volts best. This makes it easier for the spark to jump a bigger gap/denser air.
Are you talking about coils with built in igniters and them not taking the same type of signal as a normal coil(i.e a 12v square wave instead of a 12v grounding to start the charging)
Agreed, a traditional wasted spark coil is a single coil. My comment was, however, in response to the above discussion around quad coil packs. In which case the two ignitor circuits would be employed to drive two of the four coils each. BTW, it is not possible to use two conventional ignition coils to implement a wasted spark ignition system.Gunni wrote:A 4cyl wasted spark coil only has two coils.
And it charges no more then a single coil.
NO!! A CDI uses an ignition coil in the conventional transformer mode to simply step-up the voltage (from the capacitor) applied to the primary winding. Both the old fashioned Kettering ignition and the more modern electronic ignition operate the coil in the flyback mode (not as a transformer but as two coupled inductors). Coils for CDI's typically have a lower primary inductance and it is for this reason that they are unsuitable for use in the flyback mode on Kettering and conventional electronic ignitions.Gunni wrote:You can actually use normal coils with CDI no problem as there is a basically just a voltage difference(I have never ever heard of a CDI only coil). Instead of the 12v charge the CDI box does a 400V charge into the coil resulting in faster charge time and faster discharge as well as higher voltage at the spark plug, upwards of 100k volts against the normal 50k volts best. This makes it easier for the spark to jump a bigger gap/denser air.
No.Gunni wrote:Are you talking about coils with built in igniters and them not taking the same type of signal as a normal coil(i.e a 12v square wave instead of a 12v grounding to start the charging)
Last edited by GeoffBob on Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
I´m not sure I´m getting you right,
Cause I know that you can run normal coils with CDI. How can there be CDI only coils.
Cause I know that you can run normal coils with CDI. How can there be CDI only coils.
'Not what I said gunni. Conventional coils can be used in a CDI circuit. However, CDI coils should not be used with a conventional Kettering or electronic ignition circuit (at least not unless you operate the ignitor circuit at a peak current which is likely to damage the ignitor "switch").Gunni wrote:I´m not sure I´m getting you right,
Cause I know that you can run normal coils with CDI. How can there be CDI only coils.
This is due to the fact that in a CDI circuit the energy storage element (the wound up rubber band) is the capacitor. The transformer is purely there to step up the voltage. Since it requires minimal inductance to do this it can be manufactured quite small and of cheaper materials, while achieveing a high primary to secondary turns ratio.
In the case of a conventtinal Kettering or electronic ignition, however, the coil functions as the energy storage element and in fact operates, not as a transformer, but as two magnetically coupled inductors.
To understand this properly you need to understand the principle of a flyback circuit, and how this differs from a conventional transformer circuit.
"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
Oh, and BTW, changing from an electronic ignition to a CDI cannot increase the voltage at the spark-plug due to the fact that the voltage required to break-down (arc-over) the plug electrodes is defined by the plug-gap, electrode shape, electrode material, electrode temperature, and the density of the air/fuel mixture between the electrodes. Not by the ignition circuit driving the coil.Gunni wrote:Instead of the 12v charge the CDI box does a 400V charge into the coil resulting in faster charge time and faster discharge as well as higher voltage at the spark plug, upwards of 100k volts against the normal 50k volts best.
Where the CDI is of benefit is that it will support a plug with a much higher break-down voltage (due to say a larger plug-gap and/or higher boost pressure) where as a conventional electronic ignition might not be able to reach a voltage this high, and will thus fail to spark the plug.
"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
I'm gonna concentrate on putting the new turbo on first before I start trying to go wasted spark again.
New Turbo
Just a trial fit of the new turbo. Need to put an external wastegate on the manifold first though.
More new pictures on page one.
New Turbo
Just a trial fit of the new turbo. Need to put an external wastegate on the manifold first though.
More new pictures on page one.
H1D, brand new £125, I think it's the smallest one. Can't seem to find much info on it.
I'm having trouble finding a oil intake flange, any idea where i can get one from???
BTW I've had boost control for a while
I'm having trouble finding a oil intake flange, any idea where i can get one from???
BTW I've had boost control for a while
get into contact with a holset dealer. plenty of them in the UK. they should be able to help with the oil feed.
Did you measure the compressor inducer?
Did you measure the compressor inducer?
That should do you just fine.
Holset now fitted, bit disapointed. Torque monster gone. Boost doesn't kick in till 4000rpms, where it was 2000rpms before.
On the plus side i've been out tonight with the g-tech and with abit of a bad start due to wheel spin I done a 6.7 seconds 0-60 run
Hopefully get some pics up tomorrow.
On the plus side i've been out tonight with the g-tech and with abit of a bad start due to wheel spin I done a 6.7 seconds 0-60 run
Hopefully get some pics up tomorrow.
21/08-Overheating problems http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 93#1579493
So, +0.3mm head gasket, non-stretch bolts and new cam belt to be fitted this weekend and hope fully back on the road for monday morning.
Plus 4,3,2,1 Number 3 is rusted
Looking from piston 4-1
Cam doesn't look like it's in the best condition but it's not noisey
What are these marks
Does this mean the top piston rings are gone?
Exhaust valves don't look to good either
So, +0.3mm head gasket, non-stretch bolts and new cam belt to be fitted this weekend and hope fully back on the road for monday morning.
Plus 4,3,2,1 Number 3 is rusted
Looking from piston 4-1
Cam doesn't look like it's in the best condition but it's not noisey
What are these marks
Does this mean the top piston rings are gone?
Exhaust valves don't look to good either
Those are honing marks in the bores.
It seems the valves are being subject to alot of heat. It might be retarded timing .
It seems the valves are being subject to alot of heat. It might be retarded timing .
Number three valve looks a different colour like its not got as hot and number 3 spark plug looks to be alittle sutted up to, or more than the others anyway. was there any running issues before it over heated? slight miss fire/rich lambda readings?
was just wondering if not all the fuel was getting burned in number 3 cylinder all the time maybe a weak spark or damaged coil/HT lead.
Did you mount your coil on the engine or the body in the end as the vibration might have damaged it?
Looking at those valves they look exactly the same as a spare IS head i have off a standard car
not saying thats right though as it could have been running poorly to.....
What head bol;ts are you using this time?
was just wondering if not all the fuel was getting burned in number 3 cylinder all the time maybe a weak spark or damaged coil/HT lead.
Did you mount your coil on the engine or the body in the end as the vibration might have damaged it?
Looking at those valves they look exactly the same as a spare IS head i have off a standard car
not saying thats right though as it could have been running poorly to.....What head bol;ts are you using this time?
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
M42 Supercharged 285bhp + M3 6speed box
Do you have a better pic of the top of the piston on the far left of this pic? there seams to be some deepish pitting in the top and a different colour to the others again, or it may be the camera angle.
Is the piston in bore 3?
Is it bore 3 that has the damage to the fire ring on the head gasket?
Is the piston in bore 3?
Is it bore 3 that has the damage to the fire ring on the head gasket?
chu346 wrote:
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
M42 Supercharged 285bhp + M3 6speed box
The first piston/cyl pic is number 4. Nothing is different about that piston. I think when I took that pic it might of been before I wiped it down, and thats why you think it looks bad. No pitting on there.
As you can see from the headgasket, cyl 3 was the problem and I think because of this the spark plug has rusted and the piston has been steam cleaned from water getting in there.
The coil pack is mounted on the corner of the battery tray.
I think I was having spark blow out @4000rpms
As you can see from the headgasket, cyl 3 was the problem and I think because of this the spark plug has rusted and the piston has been steam cleaned from water getting in there.
The coil pack is mounted on the corner of the battery tray.
I think I was having spark blow out @4000rpms
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ShepsEvo3
- Master of go faster
- Posts: 1881
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Bristol/Wiltshire
I think you'll find most standard M40/M42 exhaust valves look as light a colour as that, but they all run very lean as standard even at WOT. A tell tale colour should be a chesnut brown shade as an indicator that the engine was getting enough fuel and combusting properly. Having said this, temps could have played a big part of the colour as Gunni said earlier. A retarded ignition would cause a leaner AFR and much higher combustion/spent gas temperature.appletree wrote:Looking at those valves they look exactly the same as a spare IS head i have off a standard car
What head bol;ts are you using this time?
ARP bolts are not that expensive and helps prevent the head from moving about. They are also re-usable too as far as I am aware.
Great thread though! Well done
E30 M3 Unichip Alpha N style conversions, this is the ultimate for extracting the best out of your S14 M power car.
Also, Live mapping of your Standard Motronic ECU for optimising all your modifications.
www.sabre-tuning.co.uk
Also, Live mapping of your Standard Motronic ECU for optimising all your modifications.
www.sabre-tuning.co.uk
0-60 6.5 seconds, 15.17second 1/4 mile@ 96.2mph
All done on a private road.
What is the chirping noise when I let off the gas? I'm sure it's not the dumpvalve as that makes a different noise that you can really hear on this video.
All done on a private road.
What is the chirping noise when I let off the gas? I'm sure it's not the dumpvalve as that makes a different noise that you can really hear on this video.
What boost?
It's been set to 160 kpa, but didn't datalog so can't be sure. Been playing with the boost controllers kpa targets, instead of duty targets and I haven't got it to maintain a steady figure yet so can't be sure. Over boost protection is set to 200kpa.
Not sure what power yet, just saving up for a load of new bits before I get it dyno'd. Need a new coil pack for wasted spark, need some new tyres, and renew tax, insurance, mot.
I think this turbo would work better on your engine than mine, the boost don't come fully in untill 4000rpms
Wanna swap for the rotrex? LOL!
I think this turbo would work better on your engine than mine, the boost don't come fully in untill 4000rpms
Wanna swap for the rotrex? LOL!
Do you have any logs from your megasquirt?
This turbo is of course meant for more power.
I would try and keep the wastegate closed better before 4k to try and get more of the air to go through the turbine rather then wastegate.
What is the boost without boost control?
Picture of the wastegate?
Also from that gtech "data" you can assume just about 165-175hp and that´s just starting to get the turbo going. If you go 10-14psi with this you´ll definetelly reach something like 210hp easy.
There is alot of things to look at before saying that the turbo isn´t sized right.
I think at 1bar you should see close to 250hp and 330nm torque.
This turbo is of course meant for more power.
I would try and keep the wastegate closed better before 4k to try and get more of the air to go through the turbine rather then wastegate.
What is the boost without boost control?
Picture of the wastegate?
Also from that gtech "data" you can assume just about 165-175hp and that´s just starting to get the turbo going. If you go 10-14psi with this you´ll definetelly reach something like 210hp easy.
There is alot of things to look at before saying that the turbo isn´t sized right.
I think at 1bar you should see close to 250hp and 330nm torque.
As my wastegate is open at the minute would I not be able to hear if it was opening early? I think the boost is 10psi without boost control.
What things should I be looking at? I'm confused by the fact that my last turbo wasn't much smaller but it had full boost at 2000rpms, and this one is 4000rpms
Also the intake temps are higher with the holset for some reason?
Where can I host my logs?
What things should I be looking at? I'm confused by the fact that my last turbo wasn't much smaller but it had full boost at 2000rpms, and this one is 4000rpms
Also the intake temps are higher with the holset for some reason?
Where can I host my logs?
email them to me.
I think you´d benefit from a visit
I think you´d benefit from a visit