and another S50 swap.....

Tue May 26, 2009 11:06 am

UweM3 wrote:
ian332isport wrote:
UweM3 wrote:Yes I know it will fit with the E28 M5 mounts if you bend them enough but I just can't live with the wrong angle
E28 M5 mounts fit perfectly, and with the correct angle. You need to put the lower stud in the outer hole, but apart from that, they fit fine.
Ian, I made some "solid" mounts and the angle from the engine arm to the cross member is not the same. The E28 mount only fits because the rubber makes it flexible. It is not a huge amount but if you want to use a more solid mount it will not line up.
Look at the AGK mounts, they have the angle correction a well.

I will put up some pics of the AKG ones.. I was suprised by the amount of angle..

Tue May 26, 2009 2:55 pm

So this is why your crossmember is for sale Jhonno

Ive often thought about abusing an E36 crossmember but never had the enthusiasm to get on with it

Tue May 26, 2009 4:25 pm

DanThe wrote:So this is why your crossmember is for sale Jhonno

Ive often thought about abusing an E36 crossmember but never had the enthusiasm to get on with it

The E36 crossmemeber is NO good.
A) it doesn't fit to the E30 body (different design of the locator bushes)
B) the engine mount tabs are BEHIND the cross member.

Tue May 26, 2009 5:53 pm

Uwe, great build you've got going there, but, IMO, if I may be so bold, you will hurt the lateral rigidity of your cross member if you modify it that way. I understand that it is a work in progess and that it will likely be reinforced, but I would still advise against going this route.

I had the same problem when I fitted my 3SGTE engine. In the end I had no option but to design my own sump with the sump bowl moved to the other end of the engine. Inside of this I included the beneficial features that you describe above. The sump was manufactured from 4mm aluminium sheet with a 6mm flange. The additional benefit is that you can make your custom sump as wide as you like (within your space constraints) to hold extra oil if you want to, and mount the engine slightly lower down (with custom engine mounts) in order to lower the centre of gravity.

Only a suggestion.

Tue May 26, 2009 8:32 pm

GeoffBob, the S50S32 sump is such a neat construction I don't want to touch it. Can't imagine the design can/needs much improvement. And making a new sump would be out of my capabilities.
I know how to weld sheet metal together but I don't know much about oil sump design. So guess where my focus is

And there is already a sump with the bowl at the front end of the engine, from M50 engine. I just don't like the "open" construction of it and how low it sits.

I have tested the torsional strength of the subframe in my friends engineering workshop and I am happy with the result. There is one minor area (around the steering rack mount) which I am not 100% happy with but it doesn't affect the strength of the frame. The rectanglular section is made from 2 "C" sections welded inside each other.

Some more pictures. Cross member is more or less finished, just the steering rack bits are only tack welded just in case I need to modify something else.

Once I have everything fitted in the car (whishbones, track rods etc) I will add gussets where appropriate. And while I am at it, I might also fabricate a "lollipop" brace. Haven't decided yet.

If my car would be RHD I wouldn't need that cut out for the steering rack and all would be fine and ready to go

Tue May 26, 2009 8:56 pm

UweM3 wrote:GeoffBob, the S50S32 sump is such a neat construction I don't want to touch it. Can't imagine the design can/needs much improvement.

I have tested the torsional strength of the subframe in my friends engineering workshop and I am happy with the result.

I understand.

Tue May 26, 2009 10:21 pm

Impressive Uwe!!

Does it still fit the car ok?

Tue May 26, 2009 11:35 pm

Jhonno wrote:Impressive Uwe!!

Does it still fit the car ok?

oh yes! The big red thing in the pictures is a jig replicating the cars mounting points

Tue May 26, 2009 11:45 pm

ian332isport wrote:
UweM3 wrote:Yes I know it will fit with the E28 M5 mounts if you bend them enough but I just can't live with the wrong angle
E28 M5 mounts fit perfectly, and with the correct angle. You need to put the lower stud in the outer hole, but apart from that, they fit fine.

AKG mount.. Fits perfectly

Wed May 27, 2009 9:21 pm

UweM3 wrote: The E28 mount only fits because the rubber makes it flexible.

So if the E28 mounts sit with incorrect angles, will that cause them to fail prematurely?

Wed May 27, 2009 9:49 pm

RoadHazard wrote:
UweM3 wrote: The E28 mount only fits because the rubber makes it flexible.
So if the E28 mounts sit with incorrect angles, will that cause them to fail prematurely?

can't tell ya, I don't run them. I am going to mount the engine more solid and while I was cutting the subframe to pieces, correcting the mounting tabs at the same time seemed like a good idea

Thu May 28, 2009 12:12 am

RoadHazard wrote:
UweM3 wrote: The E28 mount only fits because the rubber makes it flexible.
So if the E28 mounts sit with incorrect angles, will that cause them to fail prematurely?

Mine have been fine for over 6 years.

Ian.

Thu May 28, 2009 12:19 am

RoadHazard wrote:
UweM3 wrote: The E28 mount only fits because the rubber makes it flexible.
So if the E28 mounts sit with incorrect angles, will that cause them to fail prematurely?

I would doubt they would last as long as not 'tweaked' but I they wont be failing anytime soon..

My AKG ones sit perfect in the mounts

Thu May 28, 2009 7:42 am

ian332isport wrote:
RoadHazard wrote:
UweM3 wrote: The E28 mount only fits because the rubber makes it flexible.
So if the E28 mounts sit with incorrect angles, will that cause them to fail prematurely?
Mine have been fine for over 6 years.

Ian.

Ian, I am sure they are. I can't see a problem on a road car.

I only corrected the angle because it's not a big job and I was going to reinforce the tabs anyway.
The stresses on the engine and gearbox mounts with sticky tyres on the bumby Ring are enormous and with solid mounts it get's even worse.

Sat May 30, 2009 11:21 am

Some serious engineering work going on there, fair play!

Sat May 30, 2009 2:01 pm

tomson wrote:Some serious engineering work going on there, fair play!

sometimes I am not so sure about that......

It could all go horribly wrong. But there is still Plan B!

Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:21 pm

well, a "minor" adjustment to the firewall to give a bit of clearance for the header No6 and the water return pipe has turned into a massive welding session today.
As you can see from the pictures I had to cut out some more rusty section than anticipated.
the jacking point almost fell out on it's own.
I am grateful for the nice sunny weather though....

and I bet right in the middle of the job I will run out of welding gas and wire

Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:38 pm

excellent stuff Uwe, good to see people who are not to bothered about chopping up the car to achieve perfection

Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:48 pm

baptie0 wrote:excellent stuff Uwe, good to see people who are not to bothered about chopping up the car to achieve perfection

...I had more the next MOT in mind

Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:21 pm

got some more welding done today

big hole in foot well is now closed

view from top. If this doesn't clear the manifold now I will slit my wrists

view of the offending items

I am think I need to turn the coolant overflow tank a little to have access to the hose connector. What have you done with yours?

looks almost finsed (I wish I wish)

Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:43 pm

cracking build there fella!
Off topic but could you put me on your list for the adjusters Jhonno is testing at the moment, very impressive

Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:52 pm

winx wrote:cracking build there fella!
Off topic but could you put me on your list for the adjusters Jhonno is testing at the moment, very impressive

Of course mate. I will have to finalised design (and price I am afraid). They will be slightly different than Jhonno's (but not in function). Are you running coil overs or OEM type springs?

Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:55 pm

oem type springs for now, bilstein b8s valved for hartge and customs springs.

Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:05 pm

Good work
Does the coolant pipe fit ok with a standard bulkhead? It looks to be quite high

Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:18 am

Good work looks like it is being well made. The E30 looks like a minter as well....

Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:35 am

e30_singh wrote:The E30 looks like a minter as well....

It's not too bad but far from beeing a minter. In the end it's a 22 year old car which lived it's live on the road for most of it. There is always some rust to sort out.
I had the skirting off and surprisngly there was no rust. I have found a little bubbling at the bottom of one rear wheelarch.

I think because it was repsprayed two years ago it looks much better than it should

Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:50 am

Very nice! I love your attention to detail, wish my handy work was anywhere near this good....i'm learning as I go

Would you please try and help me decide where to go with my new project. I've now got an M3 shell and an S14 motor and most of the bits to put the whole thing together. After researching a fair amount I'm now seriously considering putting an S50 in there instead but my main concern is the obvious....the extra weight over the front. What are your thoughts on this? Apologies if you've had to answer this a load of times already.
Alex

Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:17 am

baptie0 wrote:excellent stuff Uwe, good to see people who are not to bothered about chopping up the car to achieve perfection

Uwe, you must have winced, just a tiny bit possibly.. When you fired the angle grinder up..?

very nice subframe by the way..

Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:47 am

DanThe wrote:Good work
Does the coolant pipe fit ok with a standard bulkhead? It looks to be quite high

It's too tight for my liking. A little tap with a hammer would sort it out but I needed/wanted more room for the exhaust anyway so I cut that section out all the way up.

Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:56 am

MrBenn wrote:Very nice! I love your attention to detail, wish my handy work was anywhere near this good....i'm learning as I go
Would you please try and help me decide where to go with my new project. I've now got an M3 shell and an S14 motor and most of the bits to put the whole thing together. After researching a fair amount I'm now seriously considering putting an S50 in there instead but my main concern is the obvious....the extra weight over the front. What are your thoughts on this? Apologies if you've had to answer this a load of times already.
Alex

To be honest I don't know what to say.

To keep the S14:
--your M3 is in stock condition (or easy reversable to stock)
--your S14 doesn't need a rebuild
--you're happy with the S14's power and delivery

To go S50:
--S14 needs a full rebuild (just add a few major components together...)
-- you are thinking of making real power out of the S14
--you want serious more power
--car will be a track or fun car

I have no idea how the weight will influance the handling but from what I have seen and spoken to other swappers it will not be negative. For sure it will not handle/drive like the S14 M3 but not "that" far off.

Oh I have got one more S14 part left, the headers. If you need them drop me a PM they will go very cheap.

Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:58 am

Barx325i wrote:
baptie0 wrote:excellent stuff Uwe, good to see people who are not to bothered about chopping up the car to achieve perfection
Uwe, you must have winced, just a tiny bit possibly.. When you fired the angle grinder up..?

very nice subframe by the way..

didn't hesitate for a second

there isn't much left of a road car, that makes it a lot more easy to "form follows function" it. I was even thinking to leave the dashboard out.....

Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:51 am

some more small jobs done yesterday. Finally managed to fit that larger oil cooler (from 635) I bought more than 12 month ago.
When the engine is in I want to trailer the car to the local Pirtec shop and get all the pipes done in one hit.

I also brushed the welded in sections and some other rusty patches under the car. Was looking like a real mess with the paint dripping all over me.

also decided to up the security a little....

(there're neighbours but since I feed them sausages they keep an eye on the car)

Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:55 am

Uwe, I hope they don't leave "sausages" on your driveway like my neighbours dogs do when they get out. 'Else my neighbour gets "sausages" through his letter box

Nice Work BTW.

Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:24 pm

GeoffBob wrote:Uwe, I hope they don't leave "sausages" on your driveway like my neighbours dogs do when they get out. 'Else my neighbour gets "sausages" through his letter box

Nice Work BTW.

I have a very good relation ship with my neighbours. We share the driveway (semi detached house) In the UK dog owners need to pick up after their dogs

Raining today so no 2nd coat of paint

Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:08 pm

winx wrote:cracking build there fella!
Off topic but could you put me on your list for the adjusters Jhonno is testing at the moment, very impressive

+1

Fantastic thread, looking forward to seeing the finished project.

Can you put me down for top mount adjusters too, the ones on Jhonno's car look like a good upgrade.