engine swap, power, relabilty etc,

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DanThe
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:04 am

The M52 may actually be lighter than the M20.

We will have to put together an engine component weight thread :D
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Brianmoooore
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:14 am

Rik178m wrote:Where do you get things that cheap? Are they in good condition?
It was from an online auction, closed to the motor trade.
Don't usually go quite as cheap as that, but I guess no one else that was interested was around
I bid on a M52B28 earlier this week to £300, and it went on to make over £400.
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:18 am

its strange what people will pay for things at times. there is an engine weight link in the m50 developments thread, about 7 pages in at the bottom of the page iirc.
2.8 development thread http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=170822

m3.3.1 m20 thread - now running, chip needed - any volunteers?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... =viewtopic&
1an
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:05 pm

Simon13 wrote:a pukka 2.8 without issues will cost but it's the best power for the outlay of going down the engine conversion route this side of M-power.

It's got power locked in it as we all know. Ian listen for once and not dismiss everyones ideas one by one.

All this talk of 6 pots being nose heavy understeering chariots is boll*cks.
Simon i am listening hence why i posted this up,
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:39 pm

A decent M52 all the way if you want to stay N/A. Iirc the M52 is about 2kg heavier than an M20. This is well offset by the extra torque (207 lb/ft out of the box) and the smiles as you go from A to B. Sideways. :D

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kuntz_de
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:47 pm

1an wrote:
Simon13 wrote:a pukka 2.8 without issues will cost but it's the best power for the outlay of going down the engine conversion route this side of M-power.

It's got power locked in it as we all know. Ian listen for once and not dismiss everyones ideas one by one.

All this talk of 6 pots being nose heavy understeering chariots is boll*cks.
Simon i am listening hence why i posted this up,
but you rejected everything that was said in previous post in realtion to suspension and the benefits of the M3 5 stud set up.

have you done anything to improve your suspension apart from a full polly bush kit which you keep telling every one about.
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:29 pm

kuntz_de wrote:
1an wrote:
Simon13 wrote:a pukka 2.8 without issues will cost but it's the best power for the outlay of going down the engine conversion route this side of M-power.

It's got power locked in it as we all know. Ian listen for once and not dismiss everyones ideas one by one.

All this talk of 6 pots being nose heavy understeering chariots is boll*cks.
Simon i am listening hence why i posted this up,
but you rejected everything that was said in previous post in realtion to suspension and the benefits of the M3 5 stud set up.

have you done anything to improve your suspension apart from a full polly bush kit which you keep telling every one about.
handles alright at the moment thanks,

and i did take on board what was said in the other threads,
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:19 pm

dont you dare chuck that zetec engine in a bmw! what are you thinking man? the only ford engine worthy of the e30 is a cosworth. i like the idea of the de strangled m50b28 with a nice cam :evil:
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:21 pm

Ian, you changed your plans then dude ??

I have 4 "spare" M50's if you want to go that route.

and 2 complete sets of M52 internals, plus the "other" set

See you on the 27th :thumb:

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1an
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:39 pm

Ant, we shall speak on the 27th :thumb:
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:26 pm

Just make sure the project build lasts a couple of years so you can actually insure it :wink:
1an
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:01 pm

can insure it at 19 Theo, hopefully have it for pod :D plus gonna insure it in dads name so i can take it to trackdays etc,
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DanThe
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:39 pm

Will be cheaper to insure it in a 316i anyway as its a lower insurance group 8)
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kuntz_de
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:29 pm

1an wrote:
kuntz_de wrote:
1an wrote: Simon i am listening hence why i posted this up,
but you rejected everything that was said in previous post in realtion to suspension and the benefits of the M3 5 stud set up.

have you done anything to improve your suspension apart from a full polly bush kit which you keep telling every one about.
handles alright at the moment thanks,

and i did take on board what was said in the other threads,
kids of today hey :roll:

you simply rejected the idea of uprated ARB's (which in all honesty will never be easily spoted by an insurance assesor) on the grounds of an insurance premium increase, yet you are going mad on the idea of engine swops and insuring the car in back handed way to afford to be able to drive and run your car.
also when advised there is no real benfit to a 5 stud set up bar the reason to fit some fancy wheels, you dismissed that as well

but as i suppose you car handles alright you'll be fine

well all i can say is good luck, i look forward to watching this develop
1an
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:19 am

kuntz_de wrote:
1an wrote:
kuntz_de wrote: but you rejected everything that was said in previous post in realtion to suspension and the benefits of the M3 5 stud set up.

have you done anything to improve your suspension apart from a full polly bush kit which you keep telling every one about.
handles alright at the moment thanks,

and i did take on board what was said in the other threads,
kids of today hey :roll:

you simply rejected the idea of uprated ARB's (which in all honesty will never be easily spoted by an insurance assesor) on the grounds of an insurance premium increase, yet you are going mad on the idea of engine swops and insuring the car in back handed way to afford to be able to drive and run your car.
also when advised there is no real benfit to a 5 stud set up bar the reason to fit some fancy wheels, you dismissed that as well

but as i suppose you car handles alright you'll be fine

well all i can say is good luck, i look forward to watching this develop
im not insuring my car in any back handed ways at all, all insured legit,

and i havent dissmissed any of the coment from other threads at all.

and as im soon to have a set of ireland engineering roll bars i havent dismissed that after driving my dads car.
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kuntz_de
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:43 pm

1an,

you rejected the idea of ARB's in a previous thread, becuse it would bump up your insurance cost, and your 325i ARB upgrade (which you think is standard for insurance reasons because they are OE) were up to the job with, i cant seem able to find the post.

also, you started 6 threads , all to do with suspension/springs/shocks and in each one you as the similar questions, and still and questioned the people that use the mentioned products, its quite clear that you simply have no idea and dont take on board what people use. at one point you have dismissed H&R springs point blank even though they have been proven on road and track, is this not what you want your car for ?

not to mention the insurance thred you started, i'll remind you of what you said and if this not back handed i dont know what is !
1an wrote: what is the scroe if i was to insure his fiesta in my name fully comp and him insure my car fully car could i drive it with the engine change 3rd party?


finaly everything seems to based on cost with you, yes we all have a budget to work to but some things should not be cost dependant. eg suspension, want a good set up then pay the £500 it will cost for the bilstein/ebach combination. you seemed to cry at the thought of paying £290 for 2 shocks ( koni's ) even though they give youo the adjustability you wanted, yet you want to pay (well you are wiling to pay) hayward scott well over a £1000 for system and manifold which will give you an extra 5bhp on you m50.

you quite clearly have no idea of what you want, no understanding or are willing to learn from other, and do not take on board advise from other experienced forum members.
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:44 pm

it's not legit when your dad is the main driver and you're a named driver who will be driving it the most. A very old trick that 1 is.

My mum and dad wouldn't do this for me when i was 19 hence why i had a 318i and 318iS then as i couldn't get insured on a 325i or the like until i was 21. I had to wait
1an
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:20 pm

Simon13 wrote:it's not legit when your dad is the main driver and you're a named driver who will be driving it the most. A very old trick that 1 is.

My mum and dad wouldn't do this for me when i was 19 hence why i had a 318i and 318iS then as i couldn't get insured on a 325i or the like until i was 21. I had to wait
Simon yes i know its not 100% but my policy states i can drive it for a maximum of 72hours a week, so everything is fine, plus my dad does drive my car.
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1an
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:24 pm

kuntz_de wrote:1an,

you rejected the idea of ARB's in a previous thread, becuse it would bump up your insurance cost, and your 325i ARB upgrade (which you think is standard for insurance reasons because they are OE) were up to the job with, i cant seem able to find the post.

also, you started 6 threads , all to do with suspension/springs/shocks and in each one you as the similar questions, and still and questioned the people that use the mentioned products, its quite clear that you simply have no idea and dont take on board what people use. at one point you have dismissed H&R springs point blank even though they have been proven on road and track, is this not what you want your car for ?

not to mention the insurance thred you started, i'll remind you of what you said and if this not back handed i dont know what is !
1an wrote: what is the scroe if i was to insure his fiesta in my name fully comp and him insure my car fully car could i drive it with the engine change 3rd party?


finaly everything seems to based on cost with you, yes we all have a budget to work to but some things should not be cost dependant. eg suspension, want a good set up then pay the £500 it will cost for the bilstein/ebach combination. you seemed to cry at the thought of paying £290 for 2 shocks ( koni's ) even though they give youo the adjustability you wanted, yet you want to pay (well you are wiling to pay) hayward scott well over a £1000 for system and manifold which will give you an extra 5bhp on you m50.

you quite clearly have no idea of what you want, no understanding or are willing to learn from other, and do not take on board advise from other experienced forum members.
yes what you have said is everything what i have said but you seem to have a real problem with me for some reason. We all post up threads to enquire about different products.

Hayward and scott, yes i will quite happily pay them the money because at the end of the day i know they will give me a product that i will be more than happy with.
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kuntz_de
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:18 pm

i have no problem, just interested to understand the method behind your madness

i can not understand why you would happily pay over £1000 for an exhust system an manifols ( it will probably cost £1500 ) to give you 5bhp . when you are worries about cost factors on going for a 5 stud conversion and the cost of decent shocks to satisfy your demands and needs for track/street/drif ambitions

hayward scott are good, but when the same results can be achiced with a stock manifold and a bespoke sytem from the many custom exhaust guys out there ( eg power flow/eurosport/torqueflow etc) it seems to me you are totaly confused.

how can they convince you that their system will be of benefit to you , its somehting which is NOT proven, yet you struggle to accept advise from regular forum members with REAL LIFE expericece on suspension set ups which are half the cost of what hayward scott would take off you but would make yopur car 10 times more rewarding to drive??

i can understand £1500 exhuast system on car with a £10,000 race engine and the extra few HP and the breathing of the engine is maximised by the system,then yes go for it, but when you want to only spend £1500 on an engine including your gearbox and instalation cost, well that i can not comprehend
1an
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:04 pm

how can they convinve me, when they have done full systems for alot of people i know, i know not bmw's but the results they are getting is very very impressive.

suspension ive sorted now as im going to order ymself a spax kit, yes alot of people dont like them but from driving my dads car im more than happy that it will give me what i want.
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kuntz_de
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:35 pm

so despite the recomendation of bilstein/koni with H&R and eibach you go on ahead with the cheaper spax kit which seveal people have said are very poor in comparison to the other combinations metioned. this understanable if you are on a budjet, which it seem you are but you want "the best" exhaust system available which brings us back to haywards scott. they have done some very impressive work, i know they have and some has been on bmw's as well, but the gains and benefits are minimal for a road car like yours , especialy when its not needed and money could be spent wisely else where

so going back to my original question, justify £1500 for an exhaust on an engine you want install in to your car which you want to transpalant for less than £2000 including the cost of all items needed and labour cost ?

i know there are people here who will say, you have no need to justify it which is true. but all the same an answer other than "the quality and results are impresive" would be appreciated

all i can see is the following.....

you want your car to look good with all the wax you cover it in (which is the best obviously), have a booming bass sound system, cruise around on some fancy rims (courtesy of the great M3 5 stud set up you will fit) and the car's engine sound meaty at high rmp when raggin' it becuase you have an overly expensive exhuast. you drive in dangerous maner drifting on wet roundabouts on a saturday night, then on the sunday go to a track day and have the bass box bash around in your boot, this is all after you have changed you fancy wheels over for your track day wheels and tyres, and adjusted the spax crap to "hard" setting ( or do you leave it on hard all the time to look cool skipping and bouncing down benfleet high street) and then drive home, all on an insurance policy that is not worth the paper its written on becuase you could not afford to pay for it and insure it in legitimate manor?

or is this all un true ?

any way just carry on ignore every one after you ask for opinions and advise, you well you seem do that regardless.
1an
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:53 pm

kuntz_de wrote:so despite the recomendation of bilstein/koni with H&R and eibach you go on ahead with the cheaper spax kit which seveal people have said are very poor in comparison to the other combinations metioned. this understanable if you are on a budjet, which it seem you are but you want "the best" exhaust system available which brings us back to haywards scott. they have done some very impressive work, i know they have and some has been on bmw's as well, but the gains and benefits are minimal for a road car like yours , especialy when its not needed and money could be spent wisely else where

so going back to my original question, justify £1500 for an exhaust on an engine you want install in to your car which you want to transpalant for less than £2000 including the cost of all items needed and labour cost ?

i know there are people here who will say, you have no need to justify it which is true. but all the same an answer other than "the quality and results are impresive" would be appreciated

all i can see is the following.....

you want your car to look good with all the wax you cover it in (which is the best obviously), have a booming bass sound system, cruise around on some fancy rims (courtesy of the great M3 5 stud set up you will fit) and the car's engine sound meaty at high rmp when raggin' it becuase you have an overly expensive exhuast. you drive in dangerous maner drifting on wet roundabouts on a saturday night, then on the sunday go to a track day and have the bass box bash around in your boot, this is all after you have changed you fancy wheels over for your track day wheels and tyres, and adjusted the spax crap to "hard" setting ( or do you leave it on hard all the time to look cool skipping and bouncing down benfleet high street) and then drive home, all on an insurance policy that is not worth the paper its written on becuase you could not afford to pay for it and insure it in legitimate manor?

or is this all un true ?

any way just carry on ignore every one after you ask for opinions and advise, you well you seem do that regardless.
1. why do i need to spend more on a suspension kit when the spax kit that is on my dads car with the roll bars, bushes etc handles exact;y how i want mine to.

2. exhaust system, if you have read i want to tune it quite a high level n/a over a period of time so why not invest in a decent exhaust and system instead of welding the standard m50 manifold onto another down pipe to make it fit.

obviously to start of with i will need to so i am able to get it all in the car and running before i have the sytem made.

3. why not have a nice stereo in my car? if its mounted correctly then its not going to be moving about,

oh and with an m50 in my car i wont need to drift in the wet as will have more than enough power and torque to be able to drift in the dry.

and if you care to ocme round ill show you my insurance documents that state i can only drive my car for a maximum of 72 hours a week. and the fact i have insurance is better than the amount of people that drive about with non,

and you sound all to much like Kos to me.
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kuntz_de
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:23 pm

1an wrote: 1. why do i need to spend more on a suspension kit when the spax kit that is on my dads car with the roll bars, bushes etc handles exact;y how i want mine to.

2. exhaust system, if you have read i want to tune it quite a high level n/a over a period of time so why not invest in a decent exhaust and system instead of welding the standard m50 manifold onto another down pipe to make it fit.

obviously to start of with i will need to so i am able to get it all in the car and running before i have the sytem made.

3. why not have a nice stereo in my car? if its mounted correctly then its not going to be moving about,

oh and with an m50 in my car i wont need to drift in the wet as will have more than enough power and torque to be able to drift in the dry.

and if you care to ocme round ill show you my insurance documents that state i can only drive my car for a maximum of 72 hours a week. and the fact i have insurance is better than the amount of people that drive about with non,

and you sound all to much like Kos to me.
all things we have heard before, nothing new you're just repeating yourself.

as for me being kos, a few have said this to me already publicly and through pm. now for the record i am not kos. however i do know him, i have know him for several years. he is still on this forum, but doesnt contribute, or post in at all. he has no reason to, nor will any progress or updated of his car be on this forum or associated with this forum. his friends and moderators know why. his user name is known by couple of people whom he has delt with regarding sales of items and its all done in conifidence.

i'm on here mainly to observe and maybe join in where i can, my trade is body work, but i have a good general all round experience of cars and have a mk2 golf for track work in germany where i spent most of my teen years and learnt my trade, and this where i met kos.
currently i am in the uk, working where kos got his M3 welded up and i worked on it.
often kos spoke about this forum and a few of the members that made him laugh, you were one of them thats why i took an interest in you. i have to say he was right.
he also said that are some very smart people, with great ideas, skill and knowledge and he was right about that.

anyway i shall move along from this thread and let you dwell on your dreams and ambitions for your car, i will watch the progress with interest.

i may attend one of the meets with kos if you'd like to meet me some time and start throwing more accusations at me and show me any domcuments you wish to.
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