2.7 Turbo with Dyno Plot!

[e30_Turbo]

Bike engines are also not designed to work agains a heavy load such as a car. especially their clutch systems.

M50 massaged into a 3.0 + turbo is about as good as things get really.
The head design is great, use a turbo spec cams and the power and delivery can be great.

Obviously the S50 + Turbo is even better. In fact they are amazing engines with great head design.

It's not going to to power a car though

I'm thinking LWB go-kart I've seen a few of these hybrids now and I'm proper attached to the idea, both the fabrication and application.

I've also learned never to f**k about with your daily car, so this time it'll be something for the weekends only

[Gunni]

That makes alot more sense

Go for a small 600cc engine in a kart, it should weighing alot less then a bigger one,
obviously depends on the total expected weight

[Turbo-Brown]

theres just something i love about the old m20 though...

Not just me then

[RowdyBurns]

That looks like an awesome car and must be great fun to drive now. Top work by Ant.

Its just a shame that there is naff all room down the side of the M20 as i'm sure a decent tubular manifold might get that turbo spooling up a couple hundred rpm earlier and probably hang on to its power a bit longer.

Whars the spec of the cam in it?

[Turbo-Brown]

There's loooooads of room beside the engine, room enough for TWO turbos infact

[Colonel Sanders]

That looks like an awesome car and must be great fun to drive now. Top work by Ant.

Its just a shame that there is naff all room down the side of the M20 as i'm sure a decent tubular manifold might get that turbo spooling up a couple hundred rpm earlier and probably hang on to its power a bit longer.

Whars the spec of the cam in it?

loads of room!! i have a equal length tubular manifold a huge turbo and a 3" downpipe..
takes some doin but it does fit with no body mods..

[agreen]

sal is this the one an tokk me out in if so my neck still hurts from the boost oooowwwww

[cplagz]

show me the secrets to 3" DP on RHD cars! Only way I can fit it is to bash in some firewall or modify cyl6 runner

[d1mmy]

Just to add this car is amazing. F******* loud and quick. The brakes are awsome and on Thursday it did us all e30's proud by chasing and keeping up with a Bentley (some pics on http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 878#901878) on the track.

Congrats to Garry and Ant those are amazing figures

Garry top man and thanks for the help on Thursday

[gadjit]

Thanks D1MMY.

Sorry i way layed you last friday at Sals,, Heard 274 very nice.

Glad to be of help mate,, E30 GS needs some love from PaintPot as my front Valance Has Bentley Rash,, That must be why they said to us to let the Bentleys pass if they were behind you,,, Next time E30 Rash for the Bentley me thinks,, Init.

[Colonel Sanders]

what pistons and rods did you use for you low cr?

[e30_Turbo]

what pistons and rods did you use for you low cr?

It's a A-tech special, custom everything, blueprinted bottom end.

Did anyone get any vids at Brunters?

[Colonel Sanders]

what pistons and rods did you use for you low cr?

It's a A-tech special, custom everything, blueprinted bottom end.

Did anyone get any vids at Brunters?

spoke to ant before and there are secrets to the recipe, soooooooo after christmas is over im gonna send him some cash to build me a bulletproof 2.7 bottom end.
i can see another 10 grand dissapearing into my shed

[Gunni]

Why is it a secret?
There is loads of information on the e30tech website and r3vlimited on what to use and so on.
I don´t like this secret aspect to the UK tuning scene and engine building.
How can anybody be helping the group without really helping?

When I have done the VEMS on my 325i , all information will be shown to you guys,
and then when it get´s turboed same again.
I also will have VEMS E30 harnesses available very soon how they are made will be laid out or more or less what changes I wanted to do to them, but of course it´s up to people if they wan´t give it a go or buy them from me.

[e30bmlover]

@uck me!! m20b27T ftw. i bet she pulls like the concorde.

[SCOTT325SE]

Why is it a secret?
There is loads of information on the e30tech website and r3vlimited on what to use and so on.
I don´t like this secret aspect to the UK tuning scene and engine building.
How can anybody be helping the group without really helping?

Because when it's someones livelihood, it becomes more than just a hobby as it is to most of us on here. It becomes business. And you dont go into business, "for a laugh". You go into business to make money and put food on the table. You start giving people the edge over you and your business starts losing money. And you cant have that.

[Ant]

^ in a nutshell Scott

I cant give away all the info I have, A-Tech has to remain a growing concern otherwise I'll be bloody hungry...

Happy to help with advice as usual, but I reserve the right to keep a few things in hand.

Mercenary ? nope, just protecting my investment of time and £Â£Ã‚£Ã‚£

[Gunni]

Lively hood?

Not telling what rods or pistons things have or compression ratio?
To me it´s keeping people in the dark in tuning matters when the BMW scene
needs it desperately right now.

Is it not well know what way the 2.7 Bexley kit´s are but they still sell them right?

Trust me when I say all the tuners I know have better business of helping the scene they are in.
It promotes sales and thats just it, if people hear your honest opinion on parts in selecting for their car they will then buy the parts from you even if you don´t do the best price around. And will then have you install that into their car.
Profit margin doesn´t come from sales it comes from Work/Hr. Thus keeping busy is key.
And if you find out that X piston or X rods are great for a specific combo, and you tell people about that.
It´s almost 100% that people will then come for you for other advice or parts install.

If people ask questions and all you say is "just give me your money and you´ll be happy and you don´t need to know what I´m going to do anyway and don´t tell anybody either if you find out". Is that what people want?

I´m sorry but I´m just sick of hearing that from BMW tuners. I can understand when it comes to cam profiles and head machining on competition equipment when you are in direct competition with other bmw tuners.

I know it from the BMW forums for a decade on them now how things work.

[SCOTT325SE]

Lively hood?

Not telling what rods or pistons things have or compression ratio?
To me it´s keeping people in the dark in tuning matters when the BMW scene
needs it desperately right now.

Is it not well know what way the 2.7 Bexley kit´s are but they still sell them right?

Trust me when I say all the tuners I know have better business of helping the scene they are in.
It promotes sales and thats just it, if people hear your honest opinion on parts in selecting for their car they will then buy the parts from you even if you don´t do the best price around. And will then have you install that into their car.
Profit margin doesn´t come from sales it comes from Work/Hr. Thus keeping busy is key.
And if you find out that X piston or X rods are great for a specific combo, and you tell people about that.
It´s almost 100% that people will then come for you for other advice or parts install.

If people ask questions and all you say is "just give me your money and you´ll be happy and you don´t need to know what I´m going to do anyway and don´t tell anybody either if you find out". Is that what people want?

I´m sorry but I´m just sick of hearing that from BMW tuners. I can understand when it comes to cam profiles and head machining on competition equipment when you are in direct competition with other bmw tuners.

I know it from the BMW forums for a decade on them now how things work.

OK then! YOU blow £20k into a business and see how precious YOU get over all the info you find out after months scratching your head (or potentially your arse if you just draw a blank!)
Try 20 different cam profiles in 1 engine to find a more progressive power curve for one custom map, pull a bottom end apart 5 times to try different pistons and cranks.

Still keen to tell people every little detail about your last 2 months work? DIDNT THINK SO!

[SCOTT325SE]

Oh, sorry to put a "by the way" in, but..... early BMWs in the UK dont have a massive modifying following because the engines are so hard to get power from, so engine SWAPS are the chosen way forward.

Dubbers and Jap Turbo cars like the 200sx/silvia are easy to get power from, so there is a huge scene into it.

Couple that to the fact that the AVERAGE e30 here is worth about £800 and theres not much point in the AVERAGE e30 owner spending £4k on a custom engine and being funny about what bits go into it.

[Gunni]

Are you kidding?
There are NO tricks left in the book of M20´s and M30´s
There where non left for NA versions back in 1990-1991 and no not many days ago a dyno showed us there have been zero gains or development for 17years. Even with coilpacks and a standalone on a stock engine

There are non for Turbo version anyway.
Anybody could just go on the PPF forum and ask them for advice and get the exact figures needed, no need to do any guessing.

Also you don´t try out 20 cam profiles, because there is a thing called math. it simplifies things alot you know?
And you don´t try out 5 different bottom ends either , cause again , math will answer you questions every time.
It´s applying them that is key.
Engine tuning stop being guesswork ages ago.

[Ant]

why cant I have a secret recipe ???

Its my method, my choice of parts and my own way of doing the job, not for the sake of profiteering, just how I feel it should be done, for the given application.

All info on Garys engine is there for all to see in the earlier parts of the thread, sure its not exactly step by step but given some product knowledge easy to replicate.

No real secrets out there as you've already commented Gunni, just opinions on how and whay to use certain parts.

anyway, massively off topic here now so anything further O/T via email or PM please.

[Gunni]

No need, I think I´ve said all I need to say.

EDIT.

How does the owner feel about the super rise of torque when boost comes on?

what is traction like in 2nd and 3rd gear when boost hits?

[gadjit]

Hey DUDES

you have all touched on a live wire here,

How can You /// How did you do that /// What did you do ///

Sorry but the secret, must be kept a secret,,

To be quite truthfull even i have no idea,, but... i was the customer of whom required 400 brake + from my 30...
Compromise was not a question, reliability was required, any one who knows me knows that comfort and economy was never in the equation,

To put all things into pespective, and not to sound toooooo above myself,,, I turn your waste into a fuel,,,,

If i were to tell you all how to manage this quest, and after the 1.500,000. investment on plant and machinery alone you would become my worst advarsary,, so unfortunately a secret is a secret,,, lucky me,,, but i am
The Customer.

Any way, On Topic..........

Me 30 is Loud and Proud and pretty darn fast,,,,,,,

All the things me asked for..........................................And then some !!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes you have to seek professional help in the pursuit of exellance...

The choice, is always yours.

Can't wait till she is run in proper, and not as tight as a nuns,,, forgive me father.......

Then we shalllllllllllllsssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeee. pppppppsssssssttttttttt

Respect to those who respect,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (in the same to AAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTTT)

Do ya wanna buy some fuel.................... PLUG.

Running at 1 bar at the mo, Engine designed for min 1.6 max 2.0,,,,,,,,,,,not the fastest and most pedantic 30 on the planet but still, pretty quick

Regards to the secret

Gary.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Who would like to see some video's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Me and my bro's Paintpot, and Fatdick, are gonna do some trial on vid runs this weekend, weather permitting,

against

Standard 325. i with BTB (Very Very nice tech 2) Diamond swartze black, my Bro's Nigalig/Fatdick
Tweaked 325.i Reiger Kitted (soon to be induced) Dakar Yellow bitch with no name, my Bro's Buggsy
R1 Thing with 2 wheels,,,,, Also owned by Buggsy the Rabbit / very sortad
Audi 07 RS4,,,, Gadjits daily drive

Before you all start to question, i shall be takin vids of inside all motors aswell, apart from the R1. that might be to difficult to do.....................

[gadjit]

Yo Gunni

CAR IS FANTASTIC MATE.

I have always been used to 340 + so was exactly what was being asked for,,, car is frightening,,, and still being run in

400 Was the mark,, and to hear and see 383 was pretty good, especially when she is still being run in,,,,,

I am Not after the biggest power 30 in the world,,, but am after it being enjoyable,,,

Hope you are enjoying an M20 Kicking out some really enjoyable figures,,,,,, :

I Sure am

[ste]

Did any of these turbocharged M20s run at the Pod? I'm interested to see how well they but the power down. I guess something like this would be getting into low 13s?

I think Erel was the only one, he managed a 15 something.

What spec is his car?

Surprised there weren't more of you turbo boys with huge power showing us all just how quick your cars were at the Ultimate BMW shootout.

[DaveD]

you asked that question on the last page

[Jhonno]

you asked that question on the last page

no he didnt, he asked if any turbo's ran at the Pod

[e30_Turbo]

What spec is his car?

Surprised there weren't more of you turbo boys with huge power showing us all just how quick your cars were at the Ultimate BMW shootout.

Erels got a T3, stock manifold with adapter, IC, MS, wasted spark etc, IIRC 220 bhp & 270ftlb last time on the rollers, it's a cab and he suffered masses of spin.

I was proper gutted I couldn't make it, had car mot'd, tax'd and ready but two weeks before i lost a water hose, which took the HG and cracked the block, so I'm still engine less all these months later. Got a new one sorted, just no money to buy it yet. In the mean time I've upgraded the IC and all the charge pipes are now 3 inch, just like the exhaust, so it's just a weekend and a engine crane away from being back on the road. I'm changing the wastegate spring from 0.6bar to 1 bar and adding boost control, having been to 1.3 bar before I know I'm going back there asap!

I would imagine, going on what a few others have done with similar power that Gary will be pushing the 11 sec barrier now, maybe more

[ste]

you asked that question on the last page

Yeah? Show me where.

Go roll your eyes somewhere else Sherlock.

[ste]

Erels got a T3, stock manifold with adapter, IC, MS, wasted spark etc, IIRC 220 bhp & 270ftlb last time on the rollers, it's a cab and he suffered masses of spin.

I was proper gutted I couldn't make it, had car mot'd, tax'd and ready but two weeks before i lost a water hose, which took the HG and cracked the block, so I'm still engine less all these months later. Got a new one sorted, just no money to buy it yet. In the mean time I've upgraded the IC and all the charge pipes are now 3 inch, just like the exhaust, so it's just a weekend and a engine crane away from being back on the road. I'm changing the wastegate spring from 0.6bar to 1 bar and adding boost control, having been to 1.3 bar before I know I'm going back there asap!

I would imagine, going on what a few others have done with similar power that Gary will be pushing the 11 sec barrier now, maybe more

Excellent, thanks for a proper answer. If you need to borrow a crane I have one sat here idle.

[e30_Turbo]

Excellent, thanks for a proper answer. If you need to borrow a crane I have one sat here idle.

No worries, the guy whom I'm getting the lump from has the most awesome 'garage', well small warehouse to you and me, with a crane, ramp, pit, dozens of parts, cars and power tools! Just need to get the car there, myself, him and some money to pay for it.

I very much appreciate the offer of the crane, hopefully it won't come too me doing it on the driveway in the cold and snow, like last year, what a mare that was.....

Thanks, Mark.

[Gunni]

Yo Gunni

CAR IS FANTASTIC MATE.

I have always been used to 340 + so was exactly what was being asked for,,, car is frightening,,, and still being run in

400 Was the mark,, and to hear and see 383 was pretty good, especially when she is still being run in,,,,,

I am Not after the biggest power 30 in the world,,, but am after it being enjoyable,,,

Hope you are enjoying an M20 Kicking out some really enjoyable figures,,,,,, :

I Sure am

Are you loosing traction when going from non boost to boost in 2nd and 3rd?

[gadjit]

Hi Gunni

Not losing traction during any gear change as yet, well in the dry anyway, in the wet she just spins as soon as boost comes in,,, all gears

Maybe partly due to the M3 3.25 twin clutch diff i bought from Nigel @ Moseley Motorsport 15 - 90 % Lock

also have pretty sticky yoko s-lines on which probably help also,,

During the run at Bruntingthorpe the heavens totally opened up, that made things very interesting indeed,,
traction was non existant, and she just span during the time trials,, I only went round the circuit once as it was just too Hairy, (cars were spinning off in all directions) did not try to push her to the limit in those conditions.

Hope this helps in some way

Gary

[Gunni]

That was what I was thinking, when the car comes on boost in those gears it looses traction,


What trans are you using with the 3.25:1 diff?

Please report back when you get to try it in the dry from rolling in 2nd and 3rd