s50 problems

[gazatron]

hi people got the e30 back from the exhaust place, went to fire her up nice and quiet finally, turn the key.......it starts!!! but it is running soooo lumpy sounds like the s50 is running on three and it stinks of fuel out the back.

have done some checks like the signal for the coils is there and each plug looks to be firing but when we took them out they were black with carbon and they are new plugs. it got to the point where the engine flooded and wouldnt start, any ideas why it may be overfueling so much?

[old_skool]

Have you connected the lamba sensors up the right way around, didn't Sandy have this problem?? Have you changed the fuel pump to the Evo one? Have you connected the fuel lines the right way round....

Those are things I'd be looking at first.

How much did the exhaust cost and where !?!?!

[buster]

Hmm,i agree,sounds like the sensors aren't connected or in the wrong manifold.

[gazatron]

yeh lambda sensor with yellow ring 1 goes to cyl 1/2/3 and yellow ring 2 to 4/5/6 we had those in the right way.
we have put a walbro fuel pump in i think the 3.0l s50 runs on 3 bar pressure. the 3.2 evo engine is higher?

talkin to the techs at my work today and they have the idea of the pressure regulator for the rail, with it running off a vacume and we have blocked pipes off, i.e the the tube with the T for the idle valve. they where wondering if that could cause it as it looks like its just throwing fuel in and its high pressure so just blowing thru injectors and running rough! goin to have a play tonight just wondered if anyone had come across it before

the exhaust system we had made was 400 but it is a awesome job looks really neat under the car but has any one had problems with back pressure?

[jmc330i]

we have put a walbro fuel pump in i think the 3.0l s50 runs on 3 bar pressure. the 3.2 evo engine is higher?

3.0ltr S50 runs 3 bar fuel pressure and will run on the standard E30 pump. The 3.2 S50 is 5 bar and needs the evo pump or aftermarket like the Walbro.

[Jhonno]

where are you gazatron? pics of the system? who did the work?

[gazatron]

i will take some pics over the weekend im in the northwest. i think some of the vacume pipes are piped up wrong going to try that!

buster, what accel cable have you used?

[Jhonno]

ive used a shortened e36m3 one on mine..

[buster]

i used standard e36 m3 one.
I used this incase it snaps i can replace with another standard part,although not likely .

[gazatron]

been having a play today i need you guys to access the archives in your heads if you havent slept too many times since!

the rough running is definately pipe work ie vacumes, the two areas im un sure of are the electric valve on the the inlet side on the block that has two vacume hoses goin to it. and the thick pipe that runs from the throttle bodies to the idle valve. see pics



the electric valve part 4 on diagram has two outlets, one thin vacume hose goes from the side of the valve to the throttle bodies part 9. the other parts 11 10 12 went to the valve the emissions pump circut which i have binned off so where does this vacume route, what have others done?



now the problem is hose 11 on this one where does it go? if i block it up it runs really rough if i leave it open it runs alot better revs up well but has a lumpy idle and you can really hear it sucking air in where is this plumed into?

i will get an e36 throttle cable then i was going to use the e30 one and modify it but if an e36 one goes straight on and yours looks neat

[old_skool]

the electric valve part 4 on diagram has two outlets, one thin vacume hose goes from the side of the valve to the throttle bodies part 9. the other parts 11 10 12 went to the valve the emissions pump circut which i have binned off so where does this vacume route, what have others done?

Leave this disconnected, the valve remains electrically connected and can open and close to it's hearts content.

now the problem is hose 11 on this one where does it go? if i block it up it runs really rough if i leave it open it runs alot better revs up well but has a lumpy idle and you can really hear it sucking air in where is this plumed into?

I don't understand what you mean, the hose (11) connects into the vertical bypass pipe (8 ) which connects to the valve (5), then to hose (6) and finally it joins to the underside of the plenum. If this hose isn't joined to the underside of the plenum then you will have problems.

If you need a pic, then just ask.



Ps. I edited your post to display the pics

[orr]

Where are you in the north west if you dont mind me asking

[gazatron]

yeh its not joined to the underside of the plenum thats what im missing! a pic would be great if its not too much trouble, i dont remember seeing an outlet ont the plenum? does it just join with a piece of pipe?

[old_skool]

I will if you tell me where you got the exhausts done! As you can see by looking at the group buys section, we are having horrendous trouble getting them done.

Good old fashioned bribery

[gazatron]

no sum confusion there i mean the other side of 11 i know it joins there it at the T joint, i mean the side it doesnt show where it goes, to the opposite end

[gazatron]

a mate of ours just modified our original manifolds in a few hours over a couple of nights, then we just took the car to like an exhaust fabricators i.e. powerflow but much better he made the rest of the systems what part is it your struggling with the manifolds i take it?

[old_skool]

a mate of ours just modified our original manifolds in a few hours over a couple of nights, then we just took the car to like an exhaust fabricators i.e. powerflow but much better he made the rest of the systems what part is it your struggling with the manifolds i take it?

Yes, the manifolds.

I'll go and have a look at my engine, back in a mo...

[old_skool]

PM me your number and I'll give you a ring.


Dameon.

[gazatron]

well i can ask our friend if he can help you out if thats what u want mate? i will take pics of ours in the car see what u think it doesnt look the prittyest but its all bolted up now. it might mean you coming here for a day i duno

[gazatron]

pm sent

[gazatron]

did you manage to have a look old skool?? or does any one else know what did you do with yours buster?

[ian332isport]

yeh its not joined to the underside of the plenum thats what im missing! a pic would be great if its not too much trouble, i dont remember seeing an outlet ont the plenum? does it just join with a piece of pipe?

This is what joins to the bottom of the plenum.



There should also be another small hose which is an oil drain back to the sump, and another vacuum hose on the top of the plenum (visible between the plastic inlet pipes).

I don't recall exactly where pipe 11 goes. It's possibly for the carbon canister, but it's a long time since I worked on mine. Either way, mine is blocked off, as it was not needed.

It sounds like you don't have all the hoses connected to the plenum. Especially as you can hear it sucking.

Ian.

[old_skool]

^^ pipe 11 indeed goes down to the valve for the carbon canister. That RealOEM picture is misleading, the pipe takes a turn down hill and connects to the valve clipped by the engine mounting.

[gazatron]

yeh i have connected all the right hoses to the intake, its suckin like mad thru the T joint in 8 where 11 goes, which may go to the carbon canister which i dont have? if i block it up it runs so bad, if i leave it to atmosphere ie open thats when it sucks and has a lumpy idle!! oh dear

[ian332isport]

yeh i have connected all the right hoses to the intake, its suckin like mad thru the T joint in 8 where 11 goes, which may go to the carbon canister which i dont have? if i block it up it runs so bad, if i leave it to atmosphere ie open thats when it sucks and has a lumpy idle!! oh dear

Whatever is wrong, it's not going to fix it by having a big hole at the 'T' joint. You must blank it off, and then find out what else is causing problems.

If it is chucking way too much fuel in, then it will be incredibly rich. Sucking air in through the 'T' joint would help to weaken the mixture, which may explain why it appears to run better with it open.

You need to get to the bottom of the fuelling problem, and I doubt very much if it has anything to do with the vacuum rail. You need to check the fuel pressure before going much further. You should have 3 bar on the S50B30. If this is okay, then you may have faulty injectors, or a duff ECU.

When you fitted the Walbro pump, did you make sure the return pipe from the pressure regulator is still connected to the fuel tank. If this pipe is blocked/capped off, then the fuel pressure reg can't control the pressure, and would explain your problem.

Ian.

[gazatron]

thanks for the help ian, the original thoughts where all on what you said above i.e injectors, ecu which is what ive been checking, just with the missing vacume pipes i thought it may have something to do with it

what pressure reg are you refering to about when we changed the pump? the only pipes i had to undo to do the pump where the feed and return when i unbolted it out of the tank under the back seat? and the only other fuel pressure reg i know of is under the rail on the s50 and that gets its vacume from the pressure rail and lives on the return fuel line?

[ian332isport]

what pressure reg are you refering to about when we changed the pump? the only pipes i had to undo to do the pump where the feed and return when i unbolted it out of the tank under the back seat? and the only other fuel pressure reg i know of is under the rail on the s50 and that gets its vacume from the pressure rail and lives on the return fuel line?

I was referring to the one on the end of the fuel rail. I just wanted to make sure you had the return line correctly connected at the tank end. If this can't freely return to the tank, the regulator (on the fuel rail) will not be able to control the fuel pressure.

I basically wasn't sure if your Walbro pump was a direct replacement for the E30 one, or something fitted outside the tank.

[old_skool]

I think Ian was referring to making sure that the return fuel path is unhindered from the pressure regulator on the fuel rail back into the tank.

Why did you change the fuel pump? What is the max. rated pressure of the walbro you have fitted. It is possible that the pressure is way too high and the pressure regulator cannot dump the fuel load adequately..

EDIT: Sorry, too late!

[old_skool]

Another thought...

If the valve isn't there on the end of pipe 11 (canister valve) then it is not electrically connected either! Not sure what impact this would have?

[ian332isport]

Not sure what impact this would have?

Probably just flag an error in the ECU. Don't think it would cause any running problems. Worst case it would go into limp home mode, but that wouldn't dump loads of fuel in.