help to spec a very cheap turbo setup?

[liam012]

Well with the money not quite present for a v8 conversion maybe i'll wait a few years until prices fall -
in the meantime i have a 2.7 and megaquirt.........
and an itch to be doing another project.
i am not looking for massive horse power but good torque would be a plus.
i will do a compression test tommoroow to see for sure but i am reckoning it could be 9 perhaps ten - there is know way of guessing as its a 2 litre skimmed head on a 525e block of which i know not the year -
i am lookking for scrapard parts here no shiny new componoents apart from spark plugs!!
though what second hand turbo would do a 2.7?
is the volvo ic the best cheap option?
i know i will have to spend on the manifold/exhaust side
but other than that i'd like to be fairly frugal as i have just poured alot of dough into this N/A build (yes i know with very little foresight )

what do you think the options are?

[iKst]

i will do a compression test tommoroow to see for sure but i am reckoning it could be 9 perhaps ten

Compression test wont give you compression ratio.

You have to calculate compression ratio from bore, stroke and other parametes. Try google to find out how to calculate CR.

[liam012]

i feel kind of stupid
like well stupid

i just never figured the two were different! i always figured a given compression reading would in turn tell you what the ratio is for that cylinder as i thought there would be a direct link between the two.
i obviously have a lot more reading?learning to do
thanks for the enlightenment!
i wonder what the ratio will be then? 525e block staddard bore, 525e crank rods and pistons - 2 litre head.
any guesses?

[e30_Turbo]

Liam,

List you need for 250bhp and a shed load of torque!

Big T3 - You have a 2.7 so nothing less than a T34
30lb injectors - Ants just got a supplier of these and cheap too
Manifold - budget dictates but again Ants sourced some good ones at good prices
Exhaust - Atleast 2inch, go for 3inch for downpipes, less back pressure, better performance
IC - the volvo one is too good a fit too not too and cheap also

I'm sure that receipe will see you for years!

Do it, you know you wanna, once you get boost, you won't go back!

HTH, Mark.

[turbo-tastic]

Will a Nissan S14 T28 be up to the job?

As I have one and the Volvo IC, so perhaps turbo'ing an E30 isn't as unlikely as I 1st thought?

Or would it have to be a T3?

[rob750]

Fozzy monster
Am I right in thinking
The type of turbo will determine whether the torque comes in low down or higher up the rev range , i.e. the bigger the turbo the further up the rev range the torque comes in . also the bigger the turbo the more power

Rob

[silver325i]

would this bo ok to control the fuel and spark!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-MEGA ... enameZWD2V

[iKst]

Turbotastic, nissan s14 turbos are good for around 300hp, but they have a different flange. If you will build a custom manifold that doesnt matter, but if you want to use 324td manifold you are better off with T3 turbo. They have T3 flange and T3 turbost bolt straight on.

rob750, you are right more or less. Bigger turbo = more airflow = more power. But it takes more exhaust gases to spin up that big turbo, so you have to rev your engine high. On the other hand, small turbos spool up very quick but they are unable to flow big amounts of air, so they are limited in high end power. There are hybrid turbos that take the best of both worlds, but only to a certain level.

silver325i, yes, many people here use megasquirt and it looks like they really love it Im still reading all about it on megasquirt.info Its very complicated for a beginer, and im only starting to understand the basics after a few days of intense reading, but i will probably buy a kit and try it myself.

There are kits available for less money, but you have to assemble it yourself. The cheapest kits cost less than a good mechanical fuel management unit and it can do MUCH more.

[silver325i]

ok mate thanks

[liam012]

BOT

I am quite worried that i will be unable to run a FI setup on this engine due to the compression "Ratio" i expect it to be though still cannot accurately determine it
can anyone give a guestimation?
running eta complete bottom end a a 2 litre head with a alpina spec cam (more problems maybe? i dont want massive boost though so maybe it wouldn't be a limiting factor?))

[bootyman]

Don't mean to be funny, but with all the people having problems with their turbo's on here, i'd be careful before undertaking this. If there's one thing i've learned the hard way, it's cut corners in anyway and you will pay for it later. Better to save the money and do it properly, than rush and then have to chuk even more money trying to rectify the peroblem. I've spoken to countless tunning guys like PPF and my conclusion is, to do a decent turbo conversion and have reliability, you'll be looking at around Ԛ£8k (Unless you can do the work yourself). That's for a reliable 400bhp to 450bhp. As you are not after big power i dont know the figures for you, but think carefully otherwise you'd be just another Zone statistic

[e30_Turbo]

BOT

I am quite worried that i will be unable to run a FI setup on this engine due to the compression "Ratio" i expect it to be though still cannot accurately determine it
can anyone give a guestimation?
running eta complete bottom end a a 2 litre head with a alpina spec cam (more problems maybe? i dont want massive boost though so maybe it wouldn't be a limiting factor?))

Liam,

Decomp plate required me thinks, I've had good feedback on a current 2.7 high comp which is now low comp with a plate and the difference is massive.

Ants sorted these is alli and copper so the choice is yours.

Alpina spec cam isn't much wilder than stock so you should be ok but if you find the power band is too high a switch to stock maybe in order.

You should get away with 5/7 psi as it is but tuning the DET out will mean you'll be using some serious amounts of ignition timing and that in turn will lose you some power.

As you have MS already it's just the hardware you need.

HTH, Mark.

[jmc330i]

but with all the people having problems with their turbo's on here

Who, what, where???

What sort of problems are people having?

[bootyman]

Read through the engine section. Even Jamz too his off and sold it cause of problems

[Turbo-Brown]

Think planning is the key to a successful conversion, not necessarily wads of cash.

Most of the problems I had with mine were down to no mapping to begin with (which Ant did a wicked job of sorting for me )

And then things like oil leaks which were just bolts working lose and the like or stuff unrelated to the conversion.

Think the problems JAMZ had stemmed from the fact that the car his kit came from was an Auto which can get away with a smaller turbo, and then other people's probs have been from getting a bit over enthusiastic with the boost.

[bootyman]

I still air caution though cause i dont think people think long enough or hard enough abouth these things. They just think. stick a turbo on my engine, whack up the boost and away you go, when in reality there's a lot more to it. Forced induction done right can be wonderful, but cut corners and it can be a nightmare, so i just think folks should research more and use their head instead of following their heart and getting carried away.

[Turbo-Brown]

Yep, would agree with that 100% Booty

I'm constantly amased by people's reluctance to lose the original ECU completely, in favor of something capable of running a turbo setup properly which really is short sighted!

[bootyman]

I think the after market ECU is probably the single most important think on a conversion, but like you said, it's the one most chhose to ignor Probably cause it's the most expensive thing. Either way as i found out with my old 2.7 in my Rieger, if it's not done righ, it can be very expensive trying to rectify it. I spent over Ԛ£5k on that engine trying to get it right and i just binned it in the end

[blingsta]

ive also had problems with my set up which i thought was done properly, but as you said Booty, i kinda like rushed into it as its my daily driver and i didnt want the car off the road for too long... its my fault and mistakes which have lead to my torrid times... and yes it does mean having to throw more money at it than i first thought... but if done properly, (which im still working on) they are great fun and very reliable... Ant's monster was fine for 2yrs...

[Ant]

but with all the people having problems with their turbo's on here

Hmmm, I'm taking offence Ben.

Issues: Jamz- cooked his turbo in the oven @ 300 degrees C to cure the paint, oil seals failed as a result

Blingsta, mystery bottom end spec( now known) low boost up to 7 psi fine, only failed @ H/G after more boost was applied

thats two "failures/problems " out of 13 boosted chariots, no-one has blown up, shagged a gearbox or anything remotely that serious.

agreed, lowering the CR and some minor internal mods are advisable, but in 35K and two years I've run from 4.4 to 11.7 psi without issue on my car, preperation is key, not the size of the cheque you write.....

[gcorky]

but with all the people having problems with their turbo's on here

Hmmm, I'm taking offence Ben.

Issues: Jamz- cooked his turbo in the oven @ 300 degrees C to cure the paint, oil seals failed as a result

Blingsta, mystery bottom end spec( now known) low boost up to 7 psi fine, only failed @ H/G after more boost was applied

thats two "failures/problems " out of 13 boosted chariots, no-one has blown up, shagged a gearbox or anything remotely that serious.

agreed, lowering the CR and some minor internal mods are advisable, but in 35K and two years I've run from 4.4 to 11.7 psi without issue on my car, preperation is key, not the size of the cheque you write.....

i wouldnt take offence m8,most people would expect a hg/bolt failure/issue on a stock setup.....and you still see people asking for a cheap setup and although some have a bit of luck and pull it off -others dont....

if you understand the fundamentals of what has been done ,common sense will say more boost=higher risk of failure....hence ringing,welding heads etc...

bottom line is this m20b25 is quite capable of running enough boost 10-15 pounds but cover your bases...makesure your engine is sound...i.e not cooling or head issues or to be safe renew hg and use non stretch bolts with more torque etc...but like someone has said you only hear of the bad experience on most forums.....not the good which 2 out of 13 is a decent rate if it was down to Ant ,which is quite obviously not the case!

jamz never told me he cooked the old tubby on 300...lol

[gcorky]

I still air caution though cause i dont think people think long enough or hard enough abouth these things. They just think. stick a turbo on my engine, whack up the boost and away you go, when in reality there's a lot more to it. Forced induction done right can be wonderful, but cut corners and it can be a nightmare, so i just think folks should research more and use their head instead of following their heart and getting carried away.

exactly my thoughts,well said

[Ant]

Don't get me wrong, agree 100% with what Booty is saying, but drawing on the negative side all the time is, to some extent mis-information , I was just trying to redress the balance

Jamz is a case in point ( sorry Carl... ) despite all efforts by Jon, and many members of this very forum, he still managed to take a known working ( and potent ! ) setup, and ruin it all through a lack of understanding of the basics.

Blingsta is just bloody unlucky I think

Education and knowledege is key , keep posting Ben

[fuzzy]

but with all the people having problems with their turbo's on here

Who, what, where???

What sort of problems are people having?

the only problems ive had with my turbo is being sold a duff recon one in the first place.spending a bit more on a brand new unit solved all my woes so thats why i say dont do it too cheaply as itll cost more in the long run,but when everythings going good ,and it is at the moment, its the best drive ive had but as my engine is originally designed to be turbo'd i dont expect to many problems in future

[dips346]

my old 2 tone tourer when it was fist done about 4 years on a budget and still runs with no problems at 10psi day in day out with aftermarket managerment or apr bolts ,that car and the white 3.5 m3 which kos now has were the first turbo cars that started this game and niether had big money put into them

[fuzzy]

my old 2 tone tourer when it was fist done about 4 years on a budget and still runs with no problems at 10psi day in day out with aftermarket managerment or apr bolts ,that car and the white 3.5 m3 which kos now has were the first turbo cars that started this game and niether had big money put into them

what do you count as big money purely out of interest?

[dips346]

my old 2 tone tourer when it was fist done about 4 years on a budget and still runs with no problems at 10psi day in day out with aftermarket managerment or apr bolts ,that car and the white 3.5 m3 which kos now has were the first turbo cars that started this game and niether had big money put into them

what do you count as big money purely out of interest?

lol.........you are asking the wrong guy about money when it comes to cars but what do mean as what would you pay for what spec as you can do a cheap one for Ԛ£2000 or a proper one built for abuse from Ԛ£8000

[blingsta]

i suppose half the effort comes down to luck aswell, As Ant said, god knows why mine played up second time round? but together with bad luck, i was also cutting very small corners, such as not having the non stretch head bolts first time round, or the decomp plate and not flushing cooling system when i put it back together again the second time round.. some guys have all the luck!!!

[jmc330i]

but with all the people having problems with their turbo's on here

Who, what, where???

What sort of problems are people having?

the only problems ive had with my turbo is being sold a duff recon one in the first place.

You must be forgetting the other problem with your turbo conversion - the little 4pot the turbo is bolted onto


It seems the problems have been down to people cutting corners or not understanding whats actually going on (no offence intended to anyone), and as the old saying goes "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing".

There must be enough info on this forum, as well as the US forums for reliable turbo conversions to be 'home made' on a budget.

[bootyman]

Ant dont take offence mate. Remember i met you at Lakeside to chat about converting the bootywagon to a turbo set up, but to do it and do it correctly wasn't going to be cheap. All i'm saying is that since then i know a lot more (Not claiming to be a expert), but i know enough now to know that there is more to forced induction than simply bolting a T3 or T4 to you engine and going out and blasting around the place that seems to be the mind set of some folks here. It's far wiser to save a bit more and do all the necessary things so you dont have problems. Apart from your turbo, i dont know of anyone else on here with a turbo that hasn't had some sort of issues. I'm not saying those people cut corners, but it's a fact

In the IT industry, we have a saying that goes "GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT" Simply put, "If you dont do the preparation right, you will get crap end results"

[liam012]

BOT...
thanks for the replies
i am sorry if the thread title makes it look like i am looking for 400bhp for Ԛ£100
however things like this decomp plate as opposed to custom pistons , volvo intercooler - are the type of tips for a setup i was looking for -
did someone use a vovlo bov too or was that just on a supercharger setup i was reading about recently?

[e30_Turbo]

BOT...
thanks for the replies
i am sorry if the thread title makes it look like i am looking for 400bhp for Ԛ£100
however things like this decomp plate as opposed to custom pistons , volvo intercooler - are the type of tips for a setup i was looking for -
did someone use a vovlo bov too or was that just on a supercharger setup i was reading about recently?

BOV's are simple devices and I'm sure they all work the same way, some recirculate and others dump to atmosphere. I'm sure any would work although you'd need a fair sized one for big pressure.

I didn't pay much more than Ԛ£50 for mine and it's not been an issue other than getting the spring pressure correct. ( adding washers in )

HTH, Mark.

[Turbo-Brown]

As long as the vacuum on closed throttle can pull the BOV open, you're laughing and as most engines make -1/2 a bar or so on closed throttle, all BOVs will open

Used one from an Audi TT on mine which cost about Ԛ£19 I think. It's a recirc type, but there's nothing to stop you letting it exit to atmosphere if you're not bothered about a massive Pssssssh

[jmc330i]

if you're not bothered about a massive Pssssssh

Isnt that what most people want??