Megasquirt... just out of interest

[Morat]

For a normal guy with a 2.5 M20, would it be worth putting MS on to eliminate those idling/flatspot problems and get a nice remap for some extra power?
I thought it would have been really expensive, but looking at some of the vendor sites it doesn't seem to be that pricey afterall.

Are there gains to be had with a day to day car (with a healthy engine) from putting modern fuel injection on an M20? What sort of budget should I allow for MSing a standard M20? I'm absolutely fine with computers (its my job) but a novice when it comes to picking up a spanner. What sensors does the M20 already have, and what would I need to source/fit myself?

Thanks
Morat

[Ant]

good Q's !

with regard to the flatspots, a chip will solve 90% of those without fail, the rar gain with MS or any other standalone is you get the tuning software to play with, and can tweak away until you fell its 100% perfect,

in terms of gains, look at it this way :

power gains, ditching the AFM leaves the intake air unrestricted and as seen on the MAF conversions thats a good 10-15 ponies already, add inthe ability to tune for your specific engines needs and you're on a winner already, you can also add other mods later and retune to suit, or swop in another engine( not neccisarily BMW )

another major plus is you can set the mixture to go lean on part throttle and save a fortune on fuel , mine is turbo charged yet still gets an average or 38 mpg on a long run, and I dont nurese the car @ 70 anywhere, ave speed 85-90 same as everyone else

the setup and software are easy enough to use without exception, add in a dtalogging feature amd full diagnostics and there is o downide imho, apart from the time and small cost.

in terms of sensors, you already have all you need apart from a "proper" tps, £20 from RS or any tps from an M50 engine and you're away.

have a look @ the "1st N/a megasquirt n spark" thread on this forum, there's some info there for you dude.

[pf525sport]

megasquirt isnt an option on my car is it ant ?

do you think the cossie turbu you fitted would be sufficient for mine & whats involved in fitting it ?

paul

[Jhonno]

megasquirt would work on the m5.. it doesnt have VANOS..

i think you would have to go bigger than a cossie (standard) turbo - 2.0 vs. 3.6 depending on boost levels you were planning on running

(i am assuming your talking about your m5 btw)

[Morat]

Thanks Ant
I'm tempted.. broke, but tempted....

[FlappySocks]

I'm thinking of doing mine soon. I'm quite handy with a soldering iron. Come MOT time, will I have any difficulty getting it through emissions test without being there with my laptop?

Stuart.

[Ant]

with regard to the emissions... the ability to pass is down to how well tuned the install is, rough running would not bode well, you'd have the ablty to tune to run stoich @ idle ( 1 lambda) with ign timing to suit you can get the emissions lower than stock ( mine are 1 lambda, 289 ppm HC)

Paul( pf525) you could use MS but the M5 has a good adaptive ECU fitted anyways, as long as the MAF readings stay within the 0/5V range through the rpm without pegging out then a remap/piggyback should be fine M8

as for turbo..... lowish boost @ the M5's CR dude, smallish turbo on 3 cylinders only maybe the ideal install, keeps it compact enough to fit in the limited space, and makes finding a suitable unit easier, std 2.0/1.8 turbo T28/T3 size would be spot on then.


food for thought ?

[Templ8e30]

I see how you tune the fuel side of the Megasquirt but how do you tune the ignition ?

Cheers,

Iain T

[TVRTASMIN]

Well definately i'm interested in buying a Megasquirt ECU for my car. What about a group buy from somewhere?

Question might be to buy a kit or one ready assembled. What do you think Ant?

[FlappySocks]

I just got a quote for a V3 kit (single ignition drive) for £170 delivered from a UK supplier. Does that sound reasonable?

Then I need a TPS and some tubing to bypass the AFM. Anything else (for a fuel only setup)?

Stuart.

[Ant]

£170 for a DIY kit is spot on, is DB37 and sensors, TPS included @ that ?

Group buy requires some commitment but can be done, minimum I'd suggest is 5 to get any discount.

For fuel only, that is all thats required, but you'll need to tweak the ignition with a chip, and "fudge" a load signal back to the motronic( uses AFM only) in order to get the full 3D map.

Ready assembled units are a lot easier, as you know it works from the outset, but a lot can be learned from the build process, and it all promotes understanding, always good IMHO.

THe tuning side is not too bad, if you can get your mind around the concepts its good fun, and very rewarding, been doing it myself for 5 years, and indeed I tweak on any long trip I get, in pursuit of the perfect map

Go for it fellas, more 'squirters the better, but be aware, you'll soon want to exploit the new tunability

[FlappySocks]

£170 for a DIY kit is spot on, is DB37 and sensors, TPS included @ that ?

I'll find out.

For fuel only, that is all thats required, but you'll need to tweak the ignition with a chip, and "fudge" a load signal back to the motronic( uses AFM only) in order to get the full 3D map.

I assumed setting up the ignition parameters would be more involved, and best left for a later date. Would it be better to wire the ignition up at the same time?

THe tuning side is not too bad, if you can get your mind around the concepts

To be honest, this is the only bit that im not looking forward to. At least that is, getting started with the initial setup. So much to learn!

Going to get a BBTB at the same time. Do I need to fabricate a bracket or something to attach the TPS to it?

Stuart.

[Ant]

Going to get a BBTB at the same time. Do I need to fabricate a bracket or something to attach the TPS to it?

Ask Ian( BBTB machinist) if you can have an M50 TPS when you order the unit dude, he had a good feew spare last time I chatted with him, you need to fabricate an adapter of sorts but its 3 holes in a flat sheet so nothing major required dude.

HTH

[Morat]

mmm group buy... but surely we'd be better off with spark as well?

[julianm40]

will defo be interested in one when ive got a 2.5 lump. What sort of gains are possible with just ms?

[Ant]

of course you want spark control dude, its the best bit

however, it is possible to implement fuel only and nobble the motronic , gives you breathing space and lessens the steepness of the learning curve..

When I bought my MS, the V2.2 was the "new" version, since surpassed by the V3.0, get a V3.0, although the 2.2 can be brought up to full V3.0 spec for around £50 and some soldering iron action internally.

Anyone thinking MS is the way forward, download Megatune from the MSEFI main site( msns-e ) and have a play around with it, if that baffles you the unit itself may turn into a long term, expensive paper weight.


If anyone want to see a unit in action, try and make a meet around the London area and I'll be happy to show you whats what , and why.

Fozzy is more than capable of showing you the ropes to BTW, he's in Felixstowe area.

[FlappySocks]

£170 for a DIY kit is spot on, is DB37 and sensors, TPS included @ that ?

I'll find out.

The kit of parts includes the DB37, but not the sensors or TPS. If anyone is interested you can contact Bill bill@shurvinton.fsworld.co.uk
I told him there are a few of us here wanting to install MS in our E30s. He said if anyone was close to Reading/Fleet, he would be happy to look over the car.

Stuart.

[FlappySocks]

Ask Ian( BBTB machinist) if you can have an M50 TPS when you order the unit dude, he had a good feew spare last time I chatted with him, you need to fabricate an adapter of sorts but its 3 holes in a flat sheet so nothing major required dude.

Cool, thanks Ant. I'll talk to Ian on that.

Stuart.

[JAMZ]

Just a question.. why is a diff TPS needed and whats the situation with having a chip installed with using MS..any advantages or disadvantages or does it make no difference at all..

Also,as you can see ive only started reading about this stuff today..Does this unit stay in the car and take place of the ECU or is it just a Plug n Play>program>remove system?

Sry for the n00blet questions but ATM i got no idea on how this works,Very intrested though

[Templ8e30]

Just a question.. why is a diff TPS needed and whats the situation with having a chip installed with using MS..any advantages or disadvantages or does it make no difference at all..

Also,as you can see ive only started reading about this stuff today..Does this unit stay in the car and take place of the ECU or is it just a Plug n Play>program>remove system?

Sry for the n00blet questions but ATM i got no idea on how this works,Very intrested though

The standard E30 TPS is just a switch to tell the ECU when the throttle is completely closed or wide open with nothing in between. The Megasquirt requires a variable resistance TPS to figure out exactly how much throttle is being used.

The Megasquirt takes the place of the original Motronic engine management which will you'd remove from the car.

Cheers,

Iain T

[JAMZ]

that answers the qusetion regarding the chip then too..

[FlappySocks]

The Megasquirt takes the place of the original Motronic engine management which will you'd remove from the car.

From what I have read elsewhere, I think you need to keep the Motronic unit running, to keep the dashboard alive.

Stuart.

[JAMZ]

So im right in thinking with the MS setup it basicaly replaces the restricted Motronic setup in which case the upgraded 'Chip' will be of no use?

[Morat]

So im right in thinking with the MS setup it basicaly replaces the restricted Motronic setup in which case the upgraded 'Chip' will be of no use?

Yes, from what I've been reading MS is a complete fuel injection system with loads more of...well... everything.. than the standard FI that came with the E30. Hardly surprising when you try and remember what sort of computer you could buy in 1984-1991....

Whatever changes you've made to the existing motronic are made irrelevant when you change to MS.

This is all from what I've been reading, I've no real world experience with MS. (yet). Now I'm starting to dream of starting with MS and ditching the flappy air meter, getting a nice map sorted out for N/A running and then thinking about a turbo with boost and launch control from the MS. unf.
Gotta buy a house first tho

[JAMZ]

Ive got a few changes in mind but il be getting MS even if i stick to orig setup,from what ive read it seems a very good route to go and if you think how much a built setup costs its really a good buy considering a price of a re-map/emerald setup etc..

like you say the setup the e30 uses is farkin old,think i was using a 16 bit Sega back then or the very first nintendo games console to play games on...now my GFX card alone is 256MB..go figure

The £250-300 outlay would pay for the fuel id be saving my tuning this PITA up over the Yr, lol

MS,here we come..... well soon anyway

[bottlecapE30]

I found this install to give every one an idea of what work is needed to add megasquirt to an e30. i found it to be a great insight and i now belive i can do it myself with a little help Ant.
http://matt325i.home.comcast.net/webpag ... quirt.html

[Morat]

Very nice link!
thanks mate