Twin Seq. Dry sumping for beginners :D

[gareth]

have you got a vacuum pump sorted yet alex?
only i have here two veeeeery expensive aircraft vacuum pumps that were replaced on some rich kids private jet. they're considered 'service part' and get replaced before failure so should be good. my brother couldn't see them thrown in a bin! yours for beer money + postage, all to a good cause i reckon!
from a sad anal engineering point of view, they're rather sexy

[Turbo-Brown]

Ooh, what do they run on dude?

I *think* I've got something sorted in the form of a nice quiet and economical fridge compressor. Just needs a couple of mods to do what I need like a cycling switch and an oil recuperator

Hooooray! (and a sigh of relief) passed my module 1 motorbike test today!

Got another days training on the 5th and then module 2 on the 6th.

REEEEALLY nervous about that one!

[gareth]

Ooh, what do they run on dude?

spinnywhirly input shaft... one 'in' port, one 'out' port.
no luve ets needed. not sure as to their original function on the plane though

[appletree]

Alex have you got the sprocket for the crank to drive the oil pump sorted yet?

ive just stripped an M60 and it ran a setup almost identical to what your trying to do all be it a standard pump rather than dry sump, just thought some of the bits off it might be some use to you, be it sprockets or chains?

The pump was mounted from 3points on two of the mains caps and had no chain tensioner, with a sprocket running behind the double one for the cam chain.

[suzie650]

Did you have to take the bolts out on the M60? they usually kindly wait for you laying in the sump...

[appletree]

LOl one was missing ya the other two were tight as though

[suzie650]

same on mine

[suzie650]

just take the lower sump off.
Apart from cleaning years of gunk that are most likely resting there, oil pump bolts on M60 are apparently known to unwind themselves, which is a bit unfortunate. If it is the case, clean them and locktite them back in.

[m_jermyn]

This post hasnt been updated in a while....... Can someone go check on turbobrown? And make sure he hasnt hurt himself in his garage or ktchen wherever he does his magic...

Im becoming impatient awaiting the next update.

Mike

[Rik178m]

Where did you learn about the carbon fibre techniques? Can you recommend somewhere to start learning?

[Turbo-Brown]

Sorry for the wait guys!

Been absolutely rushed off my feet doing bits for other people, learning to motorbike (passed by the way!) and helping my folks move house!

I learned the CF stuff from a book called Competition Car Composites:

http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/s ... -1020.html

And doing lots of experimentation.

After much experimentation, I've arrived at the conclusion that either Vacuum Resin Infusion (not covered in the book) and Prepreg systems are the only way to make decent, light and strong parts with a good finish and weave pattern in CF.

[GeoffBob]

After much experimentation, I've arrived at the conclusion that either Vacuum Resin Infusion (not covered in the book) and Prepreg systems are the only way to make decent, light and strong parts with a good finish and weave pattern in CF.

Amen to that brother! Just had my first (and hopefully last) run in with CF. I learned the hard way that CF is way more difficult and time consuming to work with than GF.

[Rik178m]

Can you give a quick explanation of prepreg just to make sure I'm on the same wavelength?

[Turbo-Brown]

Sure If we go back to "wet lay up" techniques, you get a woven (or chopped strand glass matting) reinforcement cloth made of glass, carbon, kevlar or whatever. You apply a coat of liquid resin into your mould, put the reinforcement on top while trying not to distort the weave, and then apply more resin over the top and try to get any air bubbles out. Once one layer is air free, you add more layers of reinforcement.

This is very messy potentially and it's difficult to get the ratio of reinforcement and resin right.

With prepreg materials, you buy you carbon, kevlar or whatever with the exact right amount of resin smooshed into it already. This resin is essentially solid at room temperature having a consistency like soft toffee.

You put your prepreg into your mould using it's natural tackiness to hold it in place. Once one ply is laid down and in full contact with the mould, you add more layers.

Finally, you apply a vacuum bag to the whole thing and cook it for the time specified in the manufacturers' literature.

This makes the resin soften initially so that it flows into any little gaps. The vacuum removes any air that may be trapped leaving you with a void free laminate which is as strong for its weight as it can be.

[Rik178m]

What sort of temperatures are we talkin? What do you think would be the best method for making a kitcar bonnet?

[Turbo-Brown]

The cure temp depends on the system you've bought. You can get low temp cure materials which will do the business at 70degreesC, or you can get ones which will cure at 400degreesC and any number of variations in between. You can even get room temperature cure materials.

If it's just a simple shape you're making, a kind of Se7en type thing, I'd say you could easily get away with wet layup techniques as the mould and equipment are much cheaper and you don't need an oven.

You could look at Vacuum Resin Infusion too as this makes more efficient laminates and you still don't need an oven.

[Rik178m]

Yep its a haynes roadster. I like the wet layup technique but I'm concerned I won't get the quality.

Anyway wheres your next update?

[DanThe]

Just noticed this thread is coming up to 3 years long!

[gareth]

would take about the same time to read from start to finish

[Turbo-Brown]

Bye all, off to Vietnam for a week!

[Speedtouch]

Practicing your "wet layup techniques"?

[Turbo-Brown]

Woo hoo!

If anybody's ever thought about motorbiking around Vietnam, than absolutely, definitely and positively do it!

The people are all very friendly and life just seems to plod along at a fairly gentle pace.

We got talking to some guys on our first night in Hoi An who'd biked up from HCMC. They were full of tales of massive thundering trucks which force you off the highway and being swamped by wave after wave of local bikes.

Our experience was that if you treated it like a computer game, weave in and out of traffic, overtake trucks and generally make sure you're always going faster than the locals, nobody gets in your way.

That said, the bikes we got had one or two problems. About two minutes after getting them, one of my mates fell off and, not that we noticed at the time, bent the gear selector so the bike was stuck in either top gear or neutral. One of the other guys had never ridden before and though it was normal/a result of him being hung over for the steering to have a massive amount of play in it, and my bike had a completely bald and canvassy front tyre....something I didn't notice until we were about 60km from our hotel and it was hammering it down with rain. Luckily, a trip to one of the millions of little garages out there had all these things sorted out for about £6....and much laughter and shocked expressions from the lads in the garage.

Anyway, moral of the story is, if you're like me and drive to pretty much the letter of the law in the UK (believe it or not) it's incredibly refreshing to be able to cut in and out of traffic, drive down the wrong side of the road because it's more convenient than going the long way round and generally keep beeping at people so they get out of your way, then Vietnam is the place for you! That probably sounds wreckless, but it's just how people get about there, and nobody seems to care at all!

[gareth]

were you inspired by that episode of top gear where they biked across vietnam perchance?

it looks like an amazing place and i'm mighty jealous

[oakey]

Got any pictures? Sounds like alot of fun dude Now get going on this car and stop enjoying yourself.

[Turbo-Brown]

Will try and post the piccies up this weekend.

Just gotta clear one final project out the way and then I'll be back on mine! Can't wait!

[Turbo-Brown]

We're off again! After months of doing other bits and bobs, actually got something done for my car today, feels great!

This is take 3 on the charge cooler!

The first was all aluminium with a welded in core, but I had my doubts about the water tightness of the core after it'd been made so hot (it did weep just a tiny bit!) plus it could only flow water one way too which wasn't ideal, so that one was scrapped.

MkII was made using two oil cooler cores. I'd made these a bracket arrangement and was going to bond carbon fibre air tanks either side. I made the tanks but when I offered them up, it became apparent that sealing them reliably to the cores was gonna be troublesome soooooo:

MkIII charge cooler will be one continuous molding (acutally two bonded together with a removable panel underneath, but much easier to seal!

Also, I've had enough of flow coating CF as it just increases the weight of components unnecessarily so I'm making a proper pattern this time:

Here's the bones of it:





Next thing it needs is some nice swoopy sides and a little bit of a release angle so that moldings will come out easily. From what I can gather, this is how people make speaker enclosures. Just drape some glass cloth over the skeleton:



And wet out with resin:



Once that's set, another layer can go on to make it more rigid. Then the process is repeated on the other side.

Having made the pattern, I'll be flow coated and polished. Molds can then be taken from the pattern, and finally some proper pre-preg carbon will be laid up into the molds to hopefully make a strong and light charge cooler.

The cores will drop in via a door in the bottom of the assembly.

The large sheet of MDF in the middle of the skeleton is to act as a parting line. When the final moldings are done, they'll be bonded together along this line.

[m_jermyn]

Looks good mate....... Now get back to work, I need more updates.

Mike

[Turbo-Brown]

yes sir!

Made a start on the other side of the assembly this weekend, still finishing off bits and bobs for other people hence the slow progress though.

Made a very accurate marking out tool so I could get both sides of the mold to meet in roughly the same place:




Plopped another couple of layers of glass on the other side. It's quite nice the way woven glass will take on a fairly organic curvy shape without too much prompting:






And finally made a start on the new plenum side of the cooler.



Next up will be to get the throttles, make up some formers for the outlets and tie the tank to the rest of it rigidly and with a parting line.

Just have to be absolutely sure it'll fit under a standard bonnet though!

[Turbo-Brown]

Bit more progress today with the charge cooler

First step was to make a board for the mold which is accurately located on the throttles:






One of the problems I've been having with the first and second versions was locating things accurately as the shape is fairly complex. Being able to build this version in situ is making thing much easier!

Next up was to locate the inlet and core side of the cooler. Did this by drilling a couple of holes in it and bolting it to the old inlet manifold supports on the cam cover. I've spaced it up by 1/4" to give things room to move a bit. This one will be supported solely by the rubber couplers going to and from it.



It's amazing how much room there is under the bonnet!




Needed a little modification to the outlet side to get clearance to the bonnet:








Next up is defining the profile the tank around the trumpets can take so that it clears the bonnet and also the servo:






And once that's all done and marked out, taking the whole lot apart and mounting it on a spare 'head so that the pattern can be finished off. The great big sheets of MDF are margins for the split lines again:

[gareth]

that's more gardening than i've ever done!

so, is it going to be finished by christmas?

[Turbo-Brown]

I know, really do need to give the car a wash! Looks like it's been abandoned at the moment!

Had to do some christmas shopping today which has stunted progress....would've been finished by Christmas otherwise though







Just gotta do another one or two layers of glass on that side and make a former for the tank.

Thinking more layers of glass on this side would be a good idea to keep it rigid when it's unbolted from the 'head. Once it's removed from the 'head, it can be turned over and the pattern completed with glass infils on the underside.

Then starts the process of flowcoating, flatting back and finially polishing.

Will probably make a cheap glass fibre sample just to check everything for fit before making the final product from prepreg carbon.

Once the cooler casing pattern is done, it'll be time to make a filter enclosure pattern and molds. With any luck, the filter enclosure will be a bit more universal than the charge cooler!

[Turbo-Brown]

Bit of a nerdy early Christmas pressie from Santaaaaaa arrived today:



It's a PC based oscilloscope.

The main idea idea behind getting it is to let me determine exactly how much fuel the OE injection system puts into the engine on start up.

Brown and my mate's 205 Mi16 both start first time, but only after a little bit of cranking whereas OE systems literally start on the first revolution of the engine.

Also be useful for having a look at the kind of signals things like IACVs get and what the Emerald outputs. Being PC based means it should be able to record signals too so they can be reviewed and compared at a later date.

All good geeky fun!