Hartge H36 Project (E30 M3 with S38 M5 engine)

[bss325i]

Theo, are those actually metal plates or adhesive heat insulation as they dont look welded on?

[Theo]

EWS was years after this turd rolled out you people!

climate, nice it actually works too theo!

Yes it is a nice feature, I've been checking it out the various components today and everything seems to be working, the automatic heater control is a little noisy though so that needs to be taken apart and greased/oiled.

Here's a better illustration of the bulkhead and transmission tunnel mods which will need to be replicated;

[Theo]

Theo, are those actually metal plates or adhesive heat insulation as they dont look welded on?

They're adhesive heat insulation patches Barry.

[bss325i]

Theo, are those actually metal plates or adhesive heat insulation as they dont look welded on?

They're adhesive heat insulation Barry.

I thought as much! Stuck over where Herbert massaged the bulkhead for the ex manifold?

[Theo]

Well the strange thing is that the modifications seem to be a bit OTT as there is loads of clearance. I'm sure all the mods were done for a reason.

A couple more pics of where Hartge have been chopping;

Behind drivers side headlight for the airbox


Inlet plenum seems to be very slightly shorterend, no idea why or how much must be a veeery slightly shorterned. Also has a cutout to give clearance to the servo, again though, it would fit there without the cutout.

[DanThe]

Any more pics of the airbox Theo?

[Theo]

Only this one

[keri-WMS]

Maybe you've got the prototype....? With that few made they must have sold it?

[bss325i]

Maybe you've got the prototype....? With that few made they must have sold it?

The prototype would have used an M88B35 as it is the earlier engine.

I think that red one that was on ebay may have been the first.

[DanThe]

Id be interested in a part number if you get chance

[keri-WMS]

Maybe you've got the prototype....? With that few made they must have sold it?

The prototype would have used an M88B35 as it is the earlier engine.

I think that red one that was on ebay may have been the first.

Very true..

[Theo]

Dan, it's just an s38 airbox mate.

I've just emailed Hartge to try and dig up some info on the car and whether the engine is original to the car. I hope they understand English otherwise i'll have to get my thinking cap on and do it in Deutsch!

[oguz327]

Great project Theo

What are the plans for this, track slag or restore to former glory?

[Theo]

Going to reshell and restore it to how it was. Already looking forward to driving it, even though that's a long way off!

[Simon13]

it has to be mint and no bodging theodopoluos!

[Theo]

No P40 then?

[Simon13]

only on the transmission tunnel

[bss325i]

What? No chassis rail "fabrication"?!

[oi_oi_savaloy]

Theo - mate, if Hartge tell you that they don't understand English maybe I could help. My brother in law worked in Germany for years and years so might be able to translate any emails you want to send to them and also help with the replies?

Just a thought.

It would be a shame not to be able to speak to Hartge just for the sake of a little language barrier!

Cracking project. Brilliant.

[Theo]

That's very kind of you Mr Savaloy, but translation isn't a problem to be honest. Thanks for the offer though.

[Jonsku]

Great project! Not many original H36's out there

Quite odd modifications Hartge has done to the engine / body, maybe the S38 is way easier to fit with those little mods to the plenum?

Just keep the pictures coming, thank you.

[Theo]

I think i've been talking rubbish about the plenum. It seems as if they are like that as standard.

[Theo]

I found these posts on an M5 forum made a couple of years ago by Keven Bird, who of course runs Birds which is the UK dealer for Hartge.

Combustion chambers modified to give 10.7:1, Valves and valve seats modified to three angle configuration/narrow seat area, inlet and exhaust ports enlarged and matched to machined throttle bodies and exhaust manifolds. Camshafts were high lift and longer duration and as a consequence the cam carrier had to be machined for clearance. The camshaft pulleys are slotted to allow adjustement as the engine became a little peaky, and accurate timing set-up was a must. Effectively, all of the components above the head gasket line are modified. Additionally, Hartge supplied a revised ECU to take care of the fuelling and ignition requirements.

Hartge used similar modifications in the H36, the S38 B36 engined M3. I owned one for quite a while, and Hartge told me that the particular car I had developed nearly 360hp when they had finished with it! Certainly felt like it...
With all of these types of engine, there was no "kit of parts" and no generally available solution. Each one was done individually, and the results were entirely subject to workmanship at the Beckingen factory.

With this in mind I thought I would take a peak under the valve cover in search of some machining to the cam carrier. I'm pleased to report it was clearly evident. His second post also confirms that the S38 was used in the H36 as well as the M88/3. I had slight reservations about the originality of the engine, but this has put my mind at ease.

Here are a couple of rather poor quality photos showing the modification to the carrier. It's lovely and clean in there as you can see, and the cams are in excellent condition. Wanted to check the spark plugs and do a compression test but despite having about 6 different spark plug spanners - I don't have one which is suitable.

[ricey46]

Very interesting Theo, keep the pics coming!

[oguz327]

Going to reshell and restore it to how it was. Already looking forward to driving it, even though that's a long way off!

No ring trips in it then mush?

[oguz327]

Going to reshell and restore it to how it was. Already looking forward to driving it, even though that's a long way off!

No ring trips in it then mush?

[E30BeemerLad]

Only just discovered this thread for some reason.

Quite an undertaking young Jedi, what a weapon she'll be.

[Theo]

This armco magnet probably wont be heading to the Ring Oz! Tyres and brake discs would be painfully expensive to replace. Shame really, as it would be great to try it out on the autobahn.

Cheers Ricey and Lee - encouragement is needed as it's bloody cold in my garage now.

[ricey46]

Cheers Ricey and Lee - encouragement is needed as it's bloody cold in my garage now.

I know how that feels, as I was working in the garage last night with the door open and the car's were beginning to freeze up with frost!

[Bob_S]

theo get it the ring!!!

[Jhonno]

Theo I worry about you.. Not wanting to take this Hero Chariot to its true home, wanting something soft and squishy to drive because the roads are a little rough.. You are getting old before your time

[twism]

Hey Theo nice project you have over there! I can get information for this M3 directly from BMW, you just have to give me the last seven digits from the VIN number

[jbh]

thats some project you have your hands on there Theo will be watching this closely and hope to see good progress

James

[march109]

Theo I worry about you.. Not wanting to take this Hero Chariot to its true home, wanting something soft and squishy to drive because the roads are a little rough.. You are getting old before your time

Or he has nasty piles.

[mattG]

Nice project Theo good luck, any news on that Black Box yet?