Hartge H36 Project (E30 M3 with S38 M5 engine)
Moderator: martauto
Me neither, thats why I don't know. 
This is potentially a £20-40k car I guess. It might be worth investigating a bit further, because if you could get up to the top end of the scale it is probably worth it.
This is potentially a £20-40k car I guess. It might be worth investigating a bit further, because if you could get up to the top end of the scale it is probably worth it.
Jon, my view is that these modifications are rather insignificant compared to the whole re-shell issue. I have no idea why Hartge didn't use the M5 servo and master cylinder in the first place - it's a bolt on upgrade with no hassle.
There are other changes I've made from the original - the 8k tacho with integrated oil temp gauge rather than a 7k tacho with the econometer gauge thingy sprayed black! I'm fitting a standard 325i overhead check control panel with oil level warning light. Hartge went to the trouble of fitting an oil level sensor to the bespoke sump, but didn't change the original M3 check control panel (which has no light for oil level) to a standard 6 pot version (which does)!? I've reduced the size of the airbox so that I don't have to chop aload of drives side chassis rail away. I've relocated the oil temp sensor from the sump to the oil filter housing to give a more accurate oil temp reading.
There are other changes I've made from the original - the 8k tacho with integrated oil temp gauge rather than a 7k tacho with the econometer gauge thingy sprayed black! I'm fitting a standard 325i overhead check control panel with oil level warning light. Hartge went to the trouble of fitting an oil level sensor to the bespoke sump, but didn't change the original M3 check control panel (which has no light for oil level) to a standard 6 pot version (which does)!? I've reduced the size of the airbox so that I don't have to chop aload of drives side chassis rail away. I've relocated the oil temp sensor from the sump to the oil filter housing to give a more accurate oil temp reading.
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anothere21323i
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Theo, just out of curiosity, what did you do with the suspension and wheels from the donor shell?
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anothere21323i
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D'oh! I was really hoping you were going to say something along the lines of 'they're in the loft, lovingly stored and waiting for a zoner to come along at the right time with a wad of cash to entice me with'..... 
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e30topless
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Theo its never going to get done, sell it to me please
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e30topless
- E30 Zone Team Member
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you can never have enough scrap Theo,Theo325 wrote:Steve, you have more than enough scrap to contend with. I wouldn't want to burden you with more.
Indeed more pics are needed even if its just of amassed parts
The other advantage of the dogleg is that if you end up deciding the S38 is a disappointment you can always get a 525e bell-housing and stick in a mighty M42 instead
The other advantage of the dogleg is that if you end up deciding the S38 is a disappointment you can always get a 525e bell-housing and stick in a mighty M42 instead
M42 rightness above 6500rpm, nobody can hear you scream
Just spent A LOT of Euros on an original Hartge H35/H35-24 sump - I will not be buying Xmas presents for anyone this year! I figured it was probably the only chance I'll ever get to buy a good one to replace my twice repaired version.
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e30topless
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Nice purchase Theo !
may have been expensive but it had to be done , what's the chances of another turning up ?
with a sump that expensive and rare I would be fitting Range rover suspension... 2 foot ride height FTW!
may have been expensive but it had to be done , what's the chances of another turning up ?
with a sump that expensive and rare I would be fitting Range rover suspension... 2 foot ride height FTW!
Thanks Steve, I've run the figures through my man maths calculator and it turns out it was actually a bargain.. Phew.
It will be interesting to see what ground clearance is like on this car with the sump guard fitted. Very little is my guess.
Here's an old pic of the car prior to it's interface with a lamp post or whatever it was.
It will be interesting to see what ground clearance is like on this car with the sump guard fitted. Very little is my guess.
Here's an old pic of the car prior to it's interface with a lamp post or whatever it was.
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staley_turbo
- E30 Zone Camper
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How have i only just seen this! Amazing job, now watching.
Amazing job, now watching.
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gareth
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Top morsel sourcing there! 
You should see the state of my sump after scotland last year
Thankfully it's only worth about the same as the oil inside 
You should see the state of my sump after scotland last year
Thankfully it's only worth about the same as the oil inside Sole founder of Fe2O3-12V it's a lifestyle
LSD rebuilding / modification services provided, PM for details
LSD rebuilding / modification services provided, PM for details
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racing_snake
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wow!!! this is what its all about!
it may be a long time project but you will be glad you took your time when she is complete and ready to issue slaps at your command!
it may be a long time project but you will be glad you took your time when she is complete and ready to issue slaps at your command!
No Half Measures...
Haha, thanks!
The new sump has arrived and the plan is to fit that to the engine block, fit the bell housing from the gearbox, lower that into the engine bay and bolt it to the subframe, fit the gearbox and bolt it up to the car. Then I can weld on brackets to the chassis rails for the sump guard and check I'll also bolt the head to the block with an old gasket, fit exhaust manifold and check for clearance issues.
The new sump has arrived and the plan is to fit that to the engine block, fit the bell housing from the gearbox, lower that into the engine bay and bolt it to the subframe, fit the gearbox and bolt it up to the car. Then I can weld on brackets to the chassis rails for the sump guard and check I'll also bolt the head to the block with an old gasket, fit exhaust manifold and check for clearance issues.
Fitted the engine to the shell for the first time which is kind of cool. Only a trial fit as described in my previous post but it at least gives something approaching a sense of progress.
Plan is to trial fit all the parts which may give clearance issues but before that I need to get the engine position right, I don't think the e34 m5 engine mounts are ideal - the offside of the engine needs raising about 10mm. The engine is also too far back at the moment and I can't bolt the cam carrier to the cylinder head due to the bulkhead getting in the way. No biggy, as the viscous fan is still about 20-25mm away from the radiator. I'm thinking of doing away with the viscous fan altogether and relying on the electric fan, like a standard M3 does. Might need to use some water wetter type additive which lowers coolant temperature as cooling the S38 in an e30 shell is a bit marginal.
The exhaust manifold downpipe for cylinders 4/5/6 seems to be clashing with the underside of the car, so some tweaking is needed there.
Will try and get some pics up tomorrow.
Plan is to trial fit all the parts which may give clearance issues but before that I need to get the engine position right, I don't think the e34 m5 engine mounts are ideal - the offside of the engine needs raising about 10mm. The engine is also too far back at the moment and I can't bolt the cam carrier to the cylinder head due to the bulkhead getting in the way. No biggy, as the viscous fan is still about 20-25mm away from the radiator. I'm thinking of doing away with the viscous fan altogether and relying on the electric fan, like a standard M3 does. Might need to use some water wetter type additive which lowers coolant temperature as cooling the S38 in an e30 shell is a bit marginal.
The exhaust manifold downpipe for cylinders 4/5/6 seems to be clashing with the underside of the car, so some tweaking is needed there.
Will try and get some pics up tomorrow.
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staley_turbo
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Slap me for being stupid, but i thought this engine was factory fitted to this car? So there shouldn't be any clearance issues?
Factory fitted by Mr Hartge and a big hammer to the transmission tunnel. Theo is using a different shell though as far as i remember because the original was smashed so needs to carryout similar work to the shell.
With a smaller hammer?!?Kedge wrote:Factory fitted by Mr Hartge and a big hammer to the transmission tunnel. Theo is using a different shell though as far as i remember because the original was smashed so needs to carryout similar work to the shell.