Hartge H27 piccies while the sun is out !!!

[e30topless]

That is a serious collection of nice bits!!

Is it possible that the cam says 274 and not 774?

Suprised Hartge stamp bilstein shocks!!

Also, no they dont look like 25i pistons at all, the indent pocket is smaller and the pin is closer to the edge. Nice.

will check the cam.. what about the rods ? do you recognise them ?

oh ..and i have plenty more nice bits to add ... wait until i start putting it together

[SUMPCRACKER]

I just looked at a 325 rod, its similar but not identical.
There are indents at the top of the bairing part of the rod, il try to upload a good pic from another site..I think you have a very special bottom end there.

[SUMPCRACKER]

There you go, also notice the straight cut piston skirt.

[e30topless]

thanks for that , they are different maybe mine are b20 rods ?

[SUMPCRACKER]

Possible, but i thought 2.0 & 2.5 look the same??

I would not have thought Hartge use fancy high comp forged pistons with b20 rods, more than likely you have dogs bollox rods as well you jammy bugger.

[e30topless]

better pics alongside a M20b2.5 facelift rod/piston. (Hartge is on the left)

there's quite a difference ! I am glad they are in very good order and don't need replacing

the clearance on the skirt of the piston next to the crank is tiny about 2-3mm and the rods are also thicker.
I was going to use an almost brand new block i have lying around but it seems Hartge skimmed 2 mm of the M20 block they built .

would i be right in thinking dealership 325i piston rings will be the same fitment ?




and a pic of B7's Alpina pistons for comparison


there's me thinking all 2.7's would be built the same

[sweep]

Dam iam extremly jelous.

[e30topless]

Dam iam extremly jelous.

no need to be jealous pete we will work on yours next

[SUMPCRACKER]

The piston rings may be the same diamter but they may still be different thickness ect..

Would expect Alpina 2.7 ones would be the same, assuming Alpina use different rings to the 2.5.??

Would check with Birds and simon13.

[e30topless]

The piston rings may be the same diamter but they may still be different thickness ect..

Would expect Alpina 2.7 ones would be the same, assuming Alpina use different rings to the 2.5.??

Would check with Birds and simon13.

will check with birds just to be sure



sneaky pics of the paint job just being started he's done the roof first ?
and will blend the rest in on the pillars, something to do with matching silver paint and flow or something fook knows

I have no idea about paint all i know is it will be/better be a perfect job, his work is first class and I want it flawless

[Simon13]

is there a vernier pulley on this engine?

they look to me like 2.5 pistons and is the block really decked? Rings are stock 2.5 ones on alpina engines. You could use total seal ones if your chasing some more power?!

Whats that standard 2.5 slug on the right then? its not a mahle slug so is it a Karl Schmidt one?

To me from that picture i'd of said the hartge slug was the right one! and the left was stock 2.5

Check the rod length on your hartge engine, 325's rods are 135mm and 2.0 etc are 130mm. i'd expect to see 135mm ones! This measurement is from the centre of the little end to the centre of the big end

hth

[e30topless]

is there a vernier pulley on this engine?

they look to me like 2.5 pistons and is the block really decked? Rings are stock 2.5 ones on alpina engines. You could use total seal ones if your chasing some more power?!

Whats that standard 2.5 slug on the right then? its not a mahle slug so is it a Karl Schmidt one?

To me from that picture i'd of said the hartge slug was the right one! and the left was stock 2.5

Check the rod length on your hartge engine, 325's rods are 135mm and 2.0 etc are 130mm. i'd expect to see 135mm ones! This measurement is from the centre of the little end to the centre of the big end

hth

cheers si

there's no vernier pulley 'yet'

the right one is from a facelift 325i block i had lying around I pulled it out for comparison not sure on the make it had no markings? I think sumpcrackers pic shows pre-facelift pistons ?

whereas the Hartge slugs say Mahle on the inside ?
will measure the rods, total seal rings ? sounds like a plan

pic of the block mocked up after it was painted and a few bits back from powder coating (sad eh ? )

[Alex]

looks great steve

[e30topless]

looks great steve

cheers Alex

is the block really decked?
hth

yes it is Decked, 2mm was taken off by Hartge the same as Alpina did

note this pic from trev's re-build,

you can tell there's meat gone from the top of the block compared to the standard B25

[SUMPCRACKER]

My facelift pistons dont look like the one on the left either.

[Simon13]

as i understand it there was no block decking, this is why the 320 rod built 2.7's have verniers. as they need the block decked to get the pistons to the top again. Otherwise the CR ends up way way too low

If you use 325i pistons with the 325i rods they come up too high at TDC, so alpina had their own pistons made up with a different gudgeon pin height so it was all back to normal and the 2.5 rods can be used, this formula is the better way of building a performance 2.7 as the rod angle is much better so i'm told, its less sideways as such when its travelling up and down so the pistons are exerting less force on the sides of the bores on each stroke. If that makes sense!

[B7]

as i understand it there was no block decking, this is why the 320 rod built 2.7's have verniers. as they need the block decked to get the pistons to the top again. Otherwise the CR ends up way way too low

If you use 325i pistons with the 325i rods they come up too high at TDC, so alpina had their own pistons made up with a different gudgeon pin height so it was all back to normal and the 2.5 rods can be used, this formula is the better way of building a performance 2.7 as the rod angle is much better so i'm told, its less sideways as such when its travelling up and down so the pistons are exerting less force on the sides of the bores on each stroke. If that makes sense!

Perfect sense thanks

[B7]

looks great steve

cheers Alex

is the block really decked?
hth

yes it is Decked, 2mm was taken off by Hartge the same as Alpina did

note this pic from trev's re-build,

you can tell there's meat gone from the top of the block compared to the standard B25

Theres no meat taken from my block. If there was I'd need a vernier pulley as si says.


I'd say that crank in the h27 block does look sililar to a TD crank.

Would Ian H know?

[StuBeeDoo]

It's all looking good Steve.
Was the car originally silver then??

[e30topless]

as i understand it there was no block decking, this is why the 320 rod built 2.7's have verniers. as they need the block decked to get the pistons to the top again. Otherwise the CR ends up way way too low

If you use 325i pistons with the 325i rods they come up too high at TDC, so alpina had their own pistons made up with a different gudgeon pin height so it was all back to normal and the 2.5 rods can be used, this formula is the better way of building a performance 2.7 as the rod angle is much better so i'm told, its less sideways as such when its travelling up and down so the pistons are exerting less force on the sides of the bores on each stroke. If that makes sense!

Perfect sense thanks

absolutely this is all a learning curve for me

[e30topless]

It's all looking good Steve.
Was the car originally silver then??

cheers stu

according to the little info that I have it was originally Atlantis blue

but was changed to an Audi green in about 1998
it was parked up in a garage in Newcastle in 2004 and I dragged it out beginning of this year

it looked like this when i bought it looked great but rotten as a carrot underneath




the donor car i found was sterling silver and completely rot free I decided to stick with sterling

[e30topless]

it's got paint on it !!

went to the body shop tonight he's got the colour on ,no clear has been applied yet,
looks fantastic to me but he's not happy
it will be flattened down and re-painted this weekend, this guy really is a perfectionist.
I can't wait to see the finished job


can't wait to rip the nasty drums off !






the painter goes on holiday next wednesday for 2 weeks and said i can have it back then, after it has 'settled'
I want it back home so i can bolt some shiny bits to it I have left him to it ,not going to rush him !
I suppose it gives me time to get the engine and suspension finished

[Alex]

very nice, going to look ace when finished, you need a better camera though steve

[e30topless]

very nice, going to look ace when finished, you need a better camera though steve

lost my camera so i am using my blackberry which is scratched to fook

phones don't last long in the building trade

[Alex]

very nice, going to look ace when finished, you need a better camera though steve

lost my camera so i am using my blackberry which is scratched to fook

phones don't last long in the building trade

I remember you saying now

[e30topless]

bit of an update

I should really take more pics...

top end ported polished and re-built


Block was took back to bare metal, given lots of coats of heatproof paint and laquer the core plugs were bloody hard to take out without damaging the paint. (should have removed them first)

I then took it down to sheffield for all new rings and shells, it should be back this week many thanks to pete (sweep) and his dad the master engine builder .

all the pulleys,guards, clamps, nut bolts springs ect have either been re-newed or powdercoated so it should look pretty good in the shiny newly painted engine bay.
my plan is to have it ready to drop straight in when the car returns in 9 days time so that it's not left out in the elements wish i had a bigger garage

it will be interesting to see how this performs when it's run in



I also acquired this after months of searching

[spook]

Exciting stuff, will it be at the pod?

[e30topless]

about 2 weeks to the pod ?, I doubt it will be done,

I will be going in the moredoor

[spook]

Blimey only two weeks, i didnt realize

[H35-24]

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but if you have a 2,7 engine in the car what are the rear drums still doing on it?

[e30topless]

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but if you have a 2,7 engine in the car what are the rear drums still doing on it?

nothing in the car yet no engine, no suspension, these are all being re-conditioned.
the drums are on it so the painter can move it around

[e30topless]

at last the Hartge 2.7 lump is almost ready to fit !!

completely re-built new shells, mains and rings fitted after a light Honing, should be as tight as a drum and hopefully the first M20 i have owned that doesn't smell of burning oil !

it will be a relief to fire this up and check everything is correct

got a new 8 mega something camera so i thought I would take some snaps



just noticed fannymold is on wrong way round


the car is definatly back wednesday evening , transporter organised today and thursday booked off work

[spook]

You need to polish those bananas dude

[e30topless]

they are mild steel aren't they ? what did you use on yours chris ?

[spook]

Autoglym metal polish and a rag, came up a treat