My Z1 (aka pride & joy!)

Show off your pride and joy here

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ZedOne
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:05 am

tezk wrote:So I gather its a similar age to E30 325's (though I don't believe that looking at the pics)
The Z1 was unvieled in 1986 as a concept car but then put into production from 1988 due to the vast interest generated from the concept. Its styling is quite unusual in that it still looks like it could be in production today. 20+ years on and it hasn't aged or dated in style. In the flesh it is even MORE stylish (photos really don't do them justice) and park it next to a Z3 (dare I say even the Z4) and it looks like the 'newer' model! 8O
tezk wrote:Where these for sale in the uk? Earliest Z I remember is the Z3?
Seriously nice looking motor though..
The production ran from 1988 - 1992 but some were registered as late as 1994. They were sold in the UK in very limited numbers (42 I believe) but all were LHD. The only difference to the UK model was the MPH speedo. There are probably around 100 Z1's in the UK now - the rest having been brought in from Europe (mainly Germany where the majority were sold) Mine is a German import.

Thanks for the kind comments....

Bruce.
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Farewell E30 ownership!!!! :(
munky30
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:09 am

oakey wrote:
munky30 wrote:He's 16 and his dad owns a nasty chavved m3 which he thinks is the best car (and engine) on the planet... ignore max, he knows not what he does.

Fair play on the wheels. The majority of people on here are bmw snobs, if its not a crappy sh*te looking set of standard issue 15" bbs, or possibly some dull as dishwater hartge's then its not worth having.

5 stud and hamann wheels sounds good. Get these...

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:cool:
stop forcing your terrible taste/style on innocent people munky!
P*ss off. This man obviously has style and the ability to open his mind to consider that just maybe something bmw didnt make may be a good thing too.

Go back to choosing your new cloth cap and barbour jacket and coveting your crappy standard issue wheels old man.
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chief
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:20 am

:soap:
easy fellas
Don't you wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence? There's one marked 'Brightness', but it doesn't work.
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:38 am

We give Max grief as his dads' car is missing 2 cylendars (4 pot-6 pot on going joke), I'm sure that's what Max meant.

The zone sells some nice mods for uprating your 6 pot and are full of useful recommedations. Plus there's always rolling road meets happening.

A few on here are adept with remaps, after market Maf's mega squirt etc etc. A few have done some lovely turbo upgrades too, so whatever your taste and Budget, rest assured it'll ne catered for here. Once you see through the BBS owners pipe smoke!!! winkeye
oakey
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:41 am

munky30 wrote:
oakey wrote:
munky30 wrote:He's 16 and his dad owns a nasty chavved m3 which he thinks is the best car (and engine) on the planet... ignore max, he knows not what he does.

Fair play on the wheels. The majority of people on here are bmw snobs, if its not a crappy sh*te looking set of standard issue 15" bbs, or possibly some dull as dishwater hartge's then its not worth having.

5 stud and hamann wheels sounds good. Get these...

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:cool:
stop forcing your terrible taste/style on innocent people munky!
P*ss off. This man obviously has style and the ability to open his mind to consider that just maybe something bmw didnt make may be a good thing too.

Go back to choosing your new cloth cap and barbour jacket and coveting your crappy standard issue wheels old man.
^munky. you clearly have the wrong impression of me.
In general I am not a bmw fan(mainly new bms). I love old cars, I love old VWs, Jags, Porsches, morgans etc.

Im young healthy and wealthy mate^ you go back to your bodged up- barely legal- wendy house of a "bmw" with its cheap, and worst style of, borbet rims there are.

I apologise if i seem offensive. im only having a giggle. This wasnt supposed to turn personal. But I just cant agree that those wheels are nicer than genuine alpinas! Does no-one agree with me on that?
sorry for spammin your thread zedone.- you have a lovely car mate :D
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oakey
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:42 am

did you wake up in a bad mood munky? :D
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boxclever1753
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:46 am

However, there is a far better place now, by the docks in town. Hidden away....past the Industrial Museum, The Brunel Buttery is probably Bristol's finest sausage/bacon/egg eatery!! Great food, fantastic views and a really cool atmosphere.....packed in the summer, yet busy all year round (go there and you'll see why! )
the buttery has been my familys haunt for at least 15 years now so i may see you down there on a sunday morning soon... unless i wake up too late and can't be arsed with the hour and a half long wait for my sandwiches!!
munky30
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:51 am

oakey wrote:
^munky. you clearly have the wrong impression of me.
In general I am not a bmw fan(mainly new bms). I love old cars, I love old VWs, Jags, Porsches, morgans etc.
Same here but I firmly believe cars can be improved from factory spec with the addition of a few things like nicer wheels and subtle styling mods. Hence the immense world wide success of things like the 'cal look' on beetles etc.
Im young healthy and wealthy mate^ you go back to your bodged up- barely legal- wendy house of a "bmw" with its cheap, and worst style of, borbet rims there are.
Ahh the 'I'm considerably richer than yow' argument. Well done, your parents must be very proud. Bodged up... so any car with an engine conversion is a bodge? dmittedly mine isnt quite finished yet but apart from the cable ties holding my radiator (thats about to be replaced) there is nothing bodged about my car, unless you consider anything not done by a garage as a bodge? In which case I think you'll offend a lot more people than just me on this forum with your unrepentant arrogance. Barely legal? Care to elaborate? Oh and my wheels were free, not cheap :wink:
I apologise if i seem offensive. im only having a giggle. This wasnt supposed to turn personal. But I just cant agree that those wheels are nicer than genuine alpinas! Does no-one agree with me on that?
sorry for spammin your thread zedone.- you have a lovely car mate :D
Its not personal, its forum bullsh*t banter.... However I havent had to resort to slagging off your car or insinuating that I am richer than yow so I feel I have quite comprehensively gained the moral upper ground. :D

I woke up in a grand mood... did you wake up with no sense of humour?

Anyway... enough of this petty bitching... back to the Z1... the M20 engine is a good engine with a lot of potential as blatant has said. Stick with it and you will be pleased with the results.
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oakey
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Mon May 14, 2007 12:07 pm

munky30 wrote:
oakey wrote:
^munky. you clearly have the wrong impression of me.
In general I am not a bmw fan(mainly new bms). I love old cars, I love old VWs, Jags, Porsches, morgans etc.
Same here but I firmly believe cars can be improved from factory spec with the addition of a few things like nicer wheels and subtle styling mods. Hence the immense world wide success of things like the 'cal look' on beetles etc.
^ i totally agree mate
Im young healthy and wealthy mate^ you go back to your bodged up- barely legal- wendy house of a "bmw" with its cheap, and worst style of, borbet rims there are.
munky30 wrote:Ahh the 'I'm considerably richer than yow' argument. Well done, your parents must be very proud. Bodged up... so any car with an engine conversion is a bodge? dmittedly mine isnt quite finished yet but apart from the cable ties holding my radiator (thats about to be replaced) there is nothing bodged about my car, unless you consider anything not done by a garage as a bodge? In which case I think you'll offend a lot more people than just me on this forum with your unrepentant arrogance. Barely legal? Care to elaborate? Oh and my wheels were free, not cheap :wink:
^ mate. take it easy^ it just rhymes. i wasnt trying to say im richer than you.
My car is probably got as many if not more bodged bits than yours! I only ever say that to you as its the only thing that seems to get your back up. About the wheels its all peronal opinion and said in jehst. I could say the same about you with the bbs wheels as regards to ofending people. not that anyone should get offended by someone elses opinion on wheels.
I apologise if i seem offensive. im only having a giggle. This wasnt supposed to turn personal. But I just cant agree that those wheels are nicer than genuine alpinas! Does no-one agree with me on that?
sorry for spammin your thread zedone.- you have a lovely car mate :D
munky30 wrote:Its not personal, its forum bullsh*t banter.... However I havent had to resort to slagging off your car or insinuating that I am richer than yow so I feel I have quite comprehensively gained the moral upper ground. :D


i was just retaliating to your attack at my wheels :mad: ^ I never thought I would have upset you so much dude.
I love ya really :wink:
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munky30
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Mon May 14, 2007 12:23 pm

oakey wrote: ^ mate. take it easy^ it just rhymes. i wasnt trying to say im richer than you.
I'm quoting from the bloody fast show! Surely that indicates the level of spite (or lack thereof) in my response.
My car is probably got as many if not more bodged bits than yours! I only ever say that to you as its the only thing that seems to get your back up. About the wheels its all peronal opinion and said in jehst. I could say the same about you with the bbs wheels as regards to ofending people. not that anyone should get offended by someone elses opinion on wheels.
Yes it does p*ss me off when people comment on my car. I've done all the work myself and apart from the issues it has now which are bmw's fault for using a crappy viscous fan it has no problems at all. Its far from a good example, the interior is f*cked and it has some bodywork that needs doing but if no-one were willing to do the work then it would be just another e30 confined to the scrap heap like so many others.

With regards the wheels... I personally dont think e30's are worthy of the whole original restoration crap just yet so the bbs worship on here does my nut in. It also seems to be the easiest way to get someone to bite on here :wink: (especially you)
i was just retaliating to your attack at my wheels :mad: ^ I never thought I would have upset you so much dude.
I love ya really :wink:
I dont think I have ever had the moral upper ground in my life, I just like winding people up and you seem to be a worthy adversary/easy target for my sarcasm and bitterness.

I'm far from upset, it takes a lot more than a cloth cap wearing, pipe smoking, old car fetishist to get my back up properly. Life would be very dull without someone to bitch at. Why do you think people get married?

anyway.... Topic!...
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Mon May 14, 2007 12:40 pm

tylerma wrote:may be wrong but I read somewhere
the Z1 was originally the test bed for the M20 engine
amongst other things.
Simon13 wrote:they built 7000 or so of them but it seems they are all in long term ownership hence not alot forsale

they are a 325i in drag!
bss325i wrote:The front suspension on z1's was e30 but the rear suspension was the forrunner to the e36's z axel multi link rear end. oddly enough the z3 which followed used e30 type semi trailing arm rear suspension! :mad:
I'll answer all these comments (and some of the other comments and questions hopefully?) by giving a brief history of the car so as to clarify exactly what it is - more importantly WHY it is and also to inform you of how it affected ALL subsequent BMW's.....period.

In 1985, BMW hand picked a team of engineers, designers and technicians to form a new 'branch' of BMW called BMW Technik GmbH

Up until that point, all mass production BMW's were designed and developed the same way....as evolutions of the previous/existing models (this was in terms of both style AND engineering)

BMW already had its Motorsport division which made limited sporting versions of production cars (on some level or another) based on their competition vehicles. Even the M1 was designed as a competition vehicle and was only produced as a road car to meet homologation (SP?) regulations. The same with the M3, M5 etc....

BMW Technik GmbH was a new way forward for BMW. This department was there to solely play with new ideas, techniques and technologies as 'possible' ideas for new production cars and innovative technologies. It was a 'think tank' where the designers could experiment with concepts and not have to worry about them meeting budgets, production levels etc....

Their first brief was to produce a vehicle that could 'showcase' their creativity and imagination and also act as a 'test bed' for developing new technologies that could then be considered for possible inclusion in actual production models of the future.

In answer to the challenge, they came up with the Z1 - (Z=Zukunft=Future 1=1st Edition) which was a completley unique vehicle - NOT a roadster based on an E30 325i which is a common misconception. (so, no....it's not quite a 325i in drag I'm afraid! :? )

The TT may be based on a VW Golf platform (and much the same story for many modern 'cross platform' cars) so I can understand where parallels are drawn, but the Z1 was a unique motor from the ground up. The only parts in common with any other vehicle are the E30 325 engine, gearbox and front suspension. All other parts were unique to this car.

The chassis was made from a purpose built steel 'skeleton' that was fully galvanized and also included zinc welded seams.
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The design was such that the vehicle didn't rely on body panels for strength and could be driven without any without loss of rigidity.
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Many innovative features were found on this car:

The floorpan/undertray was completely flat so as to help with the aerodynamics. The main floor section is a unique composite panel bonded into the chassis and designed to be smooth, light and very strong. It alone adds 10% to the rigidity of the car!

The designers managed to achieve excellent aerodynamics without resorting to bodykits and spoilers. The car has a special 'concave-convex' section on the bonnet which acts as a spolier in itself, yet just looks like part of the styling. It means the car has negative lift at the front without the use of a specific spoiler.

The exhaust silencer is made in the profile of an aeroplane wing....only upside down. At speed, the air passing along the smooth underside is fed over this and through a large slot in the back bumper. This sucks the back of the car to the road - increasing grip further without the need for large spoilers to ruin the lines of the bodywork. The first production car to achieve negative lift without mechanical aid (ground control fans etc...) or external spoilers.
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The bodywork was an experiment to develop a way of producing body panels out of thermoplastic instead of GRP (or conventional steel) The front bumper, wings, sills, doors and rear wings & bumper were all made from injection moulded 'XENOY' plastic which returns to its shape - even after being hit or knocked (unlike GRP or steel) Also light and easy to manufacture. The bonnet, hood cover and bootlid were all made from GRP because they needed to be more rigid due to being opened and closed.
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The paint was specially developed to 'flex' with the plastic bodywork. At the time it was the most flexible automotive paint whilst also being one of the first 'green' paints (water based and very low fumes)

A roll-bar is incorporated into the windscreen and is a one-piece metal 'hoop' from the floorpan, right up through the high sills, up the 'A' pillars, across the screen and back down the other side. Intergated to the chassis, is makes superb crash protection and aids rigidity even more!

The rear suspension was a unique 'multi-link' set up designed as a test-bed for future productuoin models. The principal was then used on the new 7 series, 850 and eventually worked its way to the 5 series, tehn 3 series...although the actual set-up on the Z1 still remains unique to the car!

The styling was a new departure for BMW and although the car had the traditional 'kidney' grill, the look of the car was unlike any production car in the range. The styling was later used as the basis for the 8 series - and seeing the two parked next to each other, you realise how much the 850 owes to the Zed.

There are many more unique aspects to the car (did I mention the doors? The only part that people tend to pick up on! :roll: ) but I won't go into them now!

Suffice to say - the Z1 was the launch of a new way for BMW to design and develop new technologies and without it (or Technik GmbH), all models since would be less advanced.

Some say it's a 'reskinned' 325i.....but I think you'll agree that there's a little more to it than that!

The engine was chosen because the designers wanted to get the car 'turned around' from drawing to prototype in 12 months (how quick??)and they wanted to spend the time developing the rest of the car - not the engine itself. When you consider the complete package that they came up with, I don't think it was too bad a choice? Better than a faster engine at the expense of handling and style!

Regards,

Bruce.

P.S. Well done if you actually read all that! Can you tell that I'm passionate about the car? :roll: :twisted: :P

P.P.S. Photos courtesy of Paul Drawmer
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oakey
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Mon May 14, 2007 12:45 pm

id rather keep it more light hearted munky. just as long as we can keep it up without either person getting offended its all good.

is the z1 lighter than an e30?
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munky30
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Mon May 14, 2007 12:51 pm

That makes for interesting reading. I never really knew anything about them apart from they had slidy doors. Its another example of why bmw is more than just a name, they're a company that strives to innovate and improve their product even if it costs a lot to do.

So did they just use an M20 from a 325 or did they tune it?
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Mon May 14, 2007 12:56 pm

@ Munky & Oakey....

You guys crack me up!! :D :D

While I was writing my 'thesis on the Z1' just now, you two go to war! :twisted:

Man I should learn to type quicker - that way I could have watched it 'realtime'! :P

For the record - I am out of work, have been for 15 months, have had NO income for 15 months, I'm not claiming any dole/benefits or anything from the government....so I guess I know where I stand in the 'who's got most dosh' game! 8)

I've managed to keep my 6 cars going through this (not ALL on the road at the same time) but my savings (AKA overdrafts) are drying up fast and I may have to think about getting another job! :cry:

Moral of the story - life is too short to get caught up bitching with each other. Get out there and enjoy life, appreciate each others vehicles and tastes even if you don't particularly like it yourself.

I'd NEVER want to own a Suburu/Evo/Skyline etc...yet I fully admire what they are about....

Anyway...I need a cuppa - my mouth is dry from all this talking... :mad:

Regards,

Bruce.
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munky30
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:06 pm

Its not war... I like oakey really, he's fun to play with.

I appreciate his car, I just dont like his wheels. :lol:

Money wise... I'm a househusband with two kids and one income from the wife... money's tight but we get by. Hence me owning an e30 and doing all the work on it myself.

Credit where its due though, you've done well to keep the z1 through 15months of skintness.
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oakey
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:10 pm

munky30 wrote:So did they just use an M20 from a 325 or did they tune it?
Im pretty sure its the standard m20. no extra power.
Thats why im wondering if its lighter?
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ZedOne
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:15 pm

munky30 wrote:So did they just use an M20 from a 325 or did they tune it?
M20 325i (170hp) is the only engine to be used from the factory.

Simon13 correctly commented that Aplina made a run of 66 Ltd edition ones with the 220hp 2.7 M20 (around 220hp - not too sure of the exact figure!) They had 17" Alpina rims - again correct with the 4x100.

They also had numbered plaques, unique steering wheels, different shocks/springs, Alpina stripes and a unique exhaust system.

Most were sent to Japan and a handful stayed in Germany.

Again - he correctly named them as the Apina RLE (Roadster Ltd Edition)

Schnitzer, Hamann, Hartge and a few other German tuners produced 2.7 variants on the M20 engine and Mosselman produced a turbo version.

As already mentioned, I would like to increase the power of mine and I like the idea of going the 2.7 route for the 'authentic' feel, but would also consider the turbo route too - depending on cost, reliability and mostly - driveability (more important to me than outright BHP!)

I have a target figure of around 220-240 bhp in my mind. Anything more and I think it would be lost/wasted on me! (it hurts to be honest sometimes! :roll: )

While I would consider it, a complete transplant (e.g. 24v engine) would be lower priority due to it being a LOT more work possibly? (unless you all know something different?) The M20 engine sits a LOT further back in the Z1 compared to the E30 in relation to the front axle (over 12 inches further back to give 50/50 weight distribution in a front engine car!) and is angled 20 degrees to make it fit under the bonnet....(more facts there for you!) Fitting another powerplant might potentially open up a whole can of whoopa$$ on my beautiful car which would make me stressed and unhappy!

Tweaking the M20 means I could pick up a 'spare' and do the work without having the car off the road. Then do the swap in one hit because the engine is pretty much like-for-like....

Catch my drift?

I'll start a new thread in the 'Transplant' section for responses. Don't want to hi-jack my own thread with questions about more power when there is a specific section for that! :wink:

As you were gentlemen..... :D

Bruce.
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ZedOne
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:26 pm

oakey wrote:
munky30 wrote:So did they just use an M20 from a 325 or did they tune it?
Im pretty sure its the standard m20. no extra power.
Correctimondo.....

See my post above for other sources of power - but you are right....Z1 came with a choice of standard M20 or standard M20!
oakey wrote:Thats why im wondering if its lighter?
Despite the misconception that the Z1 must be light because it is a plastic bodied roadster, due to the galvanised chassis and a few other things, the Z1 is actually 105kg heavier than an E30 325i!!

As mentioned, it was never designed as a production car, so weight was never a major factor in its conception! (shame really!) That extra 105kgs obviously has an effect on the performance and one of the reasons why I want to give it some protien and build it some extra muscle.

Still drives really nicely and if I can make it to the Blackdown hills next weekend, those there will see that it is by no means a slouch! It may lose a little in outright acceleration, but even the standard, unaltered handling set-up is superb and more than makes up for it!

Regards,

Bruce.
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munky30
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:38 pm

extra 100kg's puts it in the same ballpark as a 325 touring and they are no slouch in speed or handling so I wouldnt be too concerned.

If only it looked as good as a 325 tourer it would be a winner :roll:
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ZedOne
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:42 pm

munky30 wrote:If only it looked as good as a 325 tourer it would be a winner :roll:
Agreed....but you'd be really pi$$ed off if it was this unique, rare AND better looking than a Tourer... :P
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oakey
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:45 pm

go for a 2.7 with standalone management. you should easily get 220+ bhp no problem.
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munky30
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:48 pm

ZedOne wrote:
munky30 wrote:If only it looked as good as a 325 tourer it would be a winner :roll:
Agreed....but you'd be really pi$$ed off if it was this unique, rare AND better looking than a Tourer... :P
:lol:
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Mon May 14, 2007 1:53 pm

240bhp from a 2.5 or 2.7 is a lot of hard work and money. 200bhp probably more realistic, depending on your budget. Unless you go turbo. :cool:

What do you do for a living??
ZedOne
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Mon May 14, 2007 2:30 pm

blatantarrogance wrote:240bhp from a 2.5 or 2.7 is a lot of hard work and money. 200bhp probably more realistic, depending on your budget. Unless you go turbo. :cool:
Thanks Dude....

I've started a thread on it HERE and any insights into this conclusion would be VERY much appreciated....
blatantarrogance wrote:What do you do for a living??
Was a teacher for 10yrs (D&T then Head of ICT) - also been a Graphic Designer, a Product Designer and a QS. Trained as a Graphic Designer and do the odd job for beer tokens now and then.

As mentioned above - been out of work for over a year. No cash and no desire to return to teaching. Might sell up, buy a tent and live stress free in a woodland with some chickens, a small camp fire and a very tolerant girlfriend! :twisted:

Bruce.
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Mon May 14, 2007 2:55 pm

ZedOne wrote:Simon13 correctly commented that Aplina made a run of 66 Ltd edition ones with the 220hp 2.7 M20 (around 220hp - not too sure of the exact figure!) They had 17" Alpina rims - again correct with the 4x100.

Bruce.
oooh so is this where the fabled 'genuine' 17" Alpina 4-stud rims originated?

Bruce - where in Sussex is the surgeon? A bloke I used to work for has a Z1, and we are both based in West Sussex, so I'm sure a meet would be amusing.
ZedOne
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Mon May 14, 2007 10:57 pm

bss325i wrote:I've only ever seen two on the road and a handfull at Gaydon last year.
Did you mean this little lot?

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Quite possibly the biggest gathering of Z1's in the UK... 8)

But the most fun was last weekend.....three of us got together around Brighton for some fun:

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Hope you like??? :twisted:

Bruce.
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Farewell E30 ownership!!!! :(
Chris-W
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:01 pm

Great photo!
ZedOne wrote:Image
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march109
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:03 pm

Agree but wouldn't want to be looking through the camera :D :mad:
325i Tech 1 Touring, breaking.

2.5 high comp. M20, 3.64 LSD, Fully undersealed, Spax springs & Bilstein shocks, s/s exhaust, Alpina rep wheels and more.
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m3ben05
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:03 pm

Absolutely amazing looking car mate, i really love these! Where abouts in west sussex are you? Im down there quite often
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maxfield
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:03 pm

That part of gaydone looks very familiar :cry: :cry:
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Chris-W
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:04 pm

march109 wrote:Agree but wouldn't want to be looking through the camera :D :mad:
No doors - doddle :)
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ZedOne
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:12 pm

m3ben05 wrote:Absolutely amazing looking car mate, i really love these! Where abouts in west sussex are you? Im down there quite often
I'm not I'm afraid! I live in Bristol!

I drove to the Ace Cafe in London to meet up with the green one (he lives in London) then we shot down to Brighton to meet up with the red one (he lives there) then I drove home via London again! 430 miles in one day and had the doors & roof down the whole time..... :twisted: :twisted:

Fantastic day and some great drives around Brighton/Hove countryside! 8)

Bruce.
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Farewell E30 ownership!!!! :(
keri-WMS
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:26 pm

ZedOne wrote:
Fantastic day and some great drives around Brighton/Hove countryside! 8)

Bruce.
Ahhh -----, *

*curses!

Me 'n Gareth (+ Theo325) are only just down the road, and I really like the Z1! Could have stopped off for a cuppa and some 3.5 chat plus brake oggling! :D

PS - Ever heard of InterFace design in Bristol?

Keri
Rosc0PColtrane
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Tue May 15, 2007 10:03 am

I once saw about 8-10 in the Stonehenge car park, last May-June time, some with Jerry plates?
hammoj28
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Tue May 15, 2007 11:09 am

Wow, just seen this. Looks absolutely stunning!
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24v tech2
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