where do we stand legaly on a reshell ?

[jamesh1977]

my mates just wrote his sport off big style the thing is hes asked me to use his 316i as a donner shell!!! where does this stand legally as his sport is not recorded and hes talkin about transfering the papper work over to the 316i ie putting the sports id on it ? im not fully clued up on stuff is there a way we can do this legally as im not wanting involved if its dodgy


James

[StuBeeDoo]

Simple answer is "no".
The V.I.N identifies the car. You not only have the plate riveted on above the right-hand headlight, but you also have it stamped into the shell. Grinding it off is extremely "dodgy" - ie. illegal.
The registration "belongs" to the V.I.N so it has to stay on the other car unless you transfer it - £80 IIRC, someone will know for sure.
As BMW no longer have E30 bodyshells, if the Sport is not repairable you only have 2 options.....
1) Break it, walk away and find another one.
2) Put all the bits on a lesser car and live with the fact that it's now a replica.
A thing to bear in mind if you go for option 2 is if you ever go to BMW for parts you would need to quote them the original V.I.N or you may end-up getting the wrong parts.
HTH
Stuart.

[DanThe]

This is whats technically know as a 'ringer'

[StuBeeDoo]

This is whats technically know as a 'ringer'

Preee-cicsely!
Another point I forgot to make is that if a re-shell is done using a factory shell, the new shell comes with its own unique identity and this has to be declared to DVLA.

[datonyb]

things have changed then

because it used to be
the same for reshell as it was for second hand shell
inform dvla and have the log book updated and maybe have to present the car to local office to have them check the chassis number visually

ps a 'ringer' is technically a stolen car with the chassis number altered to read the same as the damaged car
eg you would steal a 'dead ringer' hence the name and use your locks and chassis number and engine

reshelling isnt ringing unless of course youve stolen the shell/car

as to answer the sport guys question fone up your local dvla office and ask them
if you can prove the main mechanical parts are all off the sport model they should agree to transfer the reg number from the sport over to the reshelled car

but you do run the risk of it being registered onto a 'q' plate!

then looks nice and dodgy for future selling on

speak to your local dvla office mate and explain what you would like to do

[DanThe]

If any authorities are involved it could put marks on the log book, cost a load in inspections, bump your insurance up etc

[kam-325i]

reshelling isnt ringing unless of course youve stolen the shell/car

Stolen or not, hiding the true identity of a car by changing the VIN is ringing.......

[Brianmoooore]

Shell is just another component of a car. It's still the same car if you replace any component with an identical component.
You wouldn't consider it a different car if the panels were all changed one by one over a period of years, so what's the problem with doing it in one?
Scuttle panel and plate behind the headlamp out of the Sport and get to work!

[kidsinister]

Shell is just another component of a car. It's still the same car if you replace any component with an identical component.

Correct; my car was rebuilt into a factory shell in '99. The new shell has no VIN number of it's own.

[beardymat]

Shell is just another component of a car. It's still the same car if you replace any component with an identical component.
You wouldn't consider it a different car if the panels were all changed one by one over a period of years, so what's the problem with doing it in one?
Scuttle panel and plate behind the headlamp out of the Sport and get to work!

once again the great moooore speaks sense.

i reshelled an 850csi into an 840 shell a while ago for a customer,all legit of course but he wanted to retain the original csi chassis no. so i fitted the number for him with photos taken along the way and the old piece containing the 840 number retained as proof that it is a legal shell.

[Aragorn]

the only legal way of keeping existing id is with a NEW monocoque and a certain number of parts from the old vehicle

an already registered monocoque will require you to either keep it on its own plate registered as a 316i with 2.5 engine etc or registered as a sport which will put it on a q plate

[bigun]

do what brian says scuttle out and get on with it

[munky30]

I would never buy a car with a cut and welded vin plate. paperwork or not..

[Brianmoooore]

the only legal way of keeping existing id is with a NEW monocoque and a certain number of parts from the old vehicle

It would be perfectly legal if the panels were replaced one by one, even with second hand panels. All we're doing here is fitting panels pre-joined together before fitting them to the scuttle panel.

[DanThe]

I think this is turning into another one of those 'yes/no' threads

[beardymat]

I would never buy a car with a cut and welded vin plate. paperwork or not..

bet i could put one in and you wouldnt be able to spot it.

always said i could probably make a lot of money ringin but i believe in karma so thats a big no no

[DanThe]

It really would be easy. You could even go and buy yourself a new scuttle with the VIN stamp in this case

[munky30]

I would never buy a car with a cut and welded vin plate. paperwork or not..

bet i could put one in and you wouldnt be able to spot it.

always said i could probably make a lot of money ringin but i believe in karma so thats a big no no

I bet you could... and I realised the flaw in my point as soon as I clicked submit...

But if I was even slightly suspicious it wasnt the original vin for that shell I would run a mile.

Seems a lot of hassle for something that 'might' end up just looking like a dodgy car. Is the v5 with sport on it really worth that much?

Sounds like a bit of a false economy situation....After the cost of the new shell, inspections by dvla etc etc wouldnt it be simpler just to use the bits in a 325 and keep the original paperwork for the engine to prove the bits are genuine sport parts?

[old_skool]

the only legal way of keeping existing id is with a NEW monocoque and a certain number of parts from the old vehicle

It would be perfectly legal if the panels were replaced one by one, even with second hand panels. All we're doing here is fitting panels pre-joined together before fitting them to the scuttle panel.

Exactly. I don't see the problem. "scrap" the 316 by sending in the V5 filed in appropriately, or whatever the reciprient is, 320i etc, then refit the 325 scuttle panel to the 316/320 shell.

If you own both of them where is the crime?

Where do you draw the line between replacing numerous panels and the whole shell? Personally, with the right history, I'd rather buy a car which has been correctly re shelled than cobbled together with replacement panels.

[beardymat]

the only legal way of keeping existing id is with a NEW monocoque and a certain number of parts from the old vehicle

It would be perfectly legal if the panels were replaced one by one, even with second hand panels. All we're doing here is fitting panels pre-joined together before fitting them to the scuttle panel.

Exactly. I don't see the problem. "scrap" the 316 by sending in the V5 filed in appropriately, or whatever the reciprient is, 320i etc, then refit the 325 scuttle panel to the 316/320 shell.

If you own both of them where is the crime?

Where do you draw the line between replacing numerous panels and the whole shell? Personally, with the right history, I'd rather buy a car which has been correctly re shelled than cobbled together with replacement panels.

more sense from another e30 god

[Brianmoooore]

Is the v5 with sport on it really worth that much?

As it happens, yes, it is! A sport will go for six to twenty times as much as an 'ordinary' E30 in the insurance salvage market.

[SPADGE]

I'm with Brian, the bearded one and that old skool geezer who sold my lovely doors
There is no point getting all anal and jumping on a soap box re this issue as its been going on for years and is only dodgy if stolen cars/parts are involved.

Anyone want to purchase a tech 1 sport v5

[seanboy]

I know on the newer bmw's there is three place's you know where to check the vin but when the old bill take in A suspect ringer bmw have more vin numbers located on the car that joe public will not see. Wondering would they have done this on e30's? The cars that come into their hands are in the region of £20k onwards.
cheers

[beardymat]

stripped a couple of new minis for repair recently and found stickers with bar codes and the last seven digits of the vin.not gonna say where they are but there`s quite a few.other cars are the same.vw stamp the new golf in three places as well as the dash no. and the vin tag, but in their dealer workshop manuals they only quote the normal under bonnet one as they did when i went on the training course.its obvious they want to keep it quiet.

as for e30`s they only have a vin tag and the chassis stamp and the individual body number also stamped to the scuttle.might also have the reg etched in glass, headlamps etc

[jamesh1977]

called my local stealer today to price a scuttle panel to replace a rotten one they said they will supply but they no longer stamp it.. so called my local mot garage who said keep hold of the origanal pannel and bring it in when its mot time he also said i should get a peice of plate stamp the chassi number onto it and rivvit it to the body as if i was to try stamping the panel id damage it he said.. but surely if i was to do it before fitting it so i can have it against a solid surface it wouldnt damage the panel ?

[HairyScreech]

take it down to an engraving shop.

im with mat, brian and every one else. i personaly couldnt give a toss if my car was reshelled or built out of 4 others as long as its done properly with ligitimate parts.

[gazza]

other than the vin and scuttle there are several other places a e30 has the vin number but this is something that should not be discussed on a open forum......

[murran]

other than the vin and scuttle there are several other places a e30 has the vin number but this is something that should not be discussed on a open forum......

im sure to an actual car ringer, where the vin nos. are on cars 20 odd years old isnt new information!

[Brianmoooore]

other than the vin and scuttle there are several other places a e30 has the vin number but this is something that should not be discussed on a open forum......

Well, I haven't found them yet!

[loggyboy]

There are 2 options, the 1st iffy, but do-able, the 2nd perfectly legal.

option1

here is the current legistlation on 'Radically Altered vehicles' -although a reshell wouldnt class as a redcial alteration, the 'points system' would still apply in most case.

Radically Altered Vehicles
40. Radically altered vehicles are vehicles that have been substantially altered from their original specification, but are not kit conversions.
41. Although their appearance is different from the original they may still qualify to retain their original registration marks. The vehicle components used from the original vehicle are allocated a numeric value and provided the vehicle scores eight points or more it will retain its original mark.
42. The point system is weighted as follows; the original or new (direct replacement from the manufacturer) unmodified chassis/monocoque bodyshell has a value of 5, the suspension (front and back) 2, axles (both) 2, transmission 2, steering assembly 2, engine 1.

Therefore is you swap (or the parts are indentical so negates the need to swap them) the suspension, axels, transmission, steering and engine you get 9 points, allowing you to retain the identity of the original car.

[loggyboy]

Alternatively there is this way that means it gets reissued a 'Q' plate

Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts
In order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

[HairyScreech]

thats stupid, theres no real world differance between a new and good used chassis.

oh and buy the points system my ka project is verynearly needing a q-plate, it would only score a 9

[fugazi33]

Tread carefully! Unless the law has changed, which as far as I'm aware it hasn't, doing what the original poster was asking about is illegal, and I should know as I narrowly avoided going to prison for it in the 90's , in the eyes of the law it's ringing, altering the original identification of a vehicle, Saying that there is thousands of reshelled cars, done the way being discussed here on the road.

[loggyboy]

Tread carefully! Unless the law has changed, which as far as I'm aware it hasn't, doing what the original poster was asking about is illegal.

Yes, altering it without informing them, thats illegal, but there are legal ways to reshell a car.

oh and buy the points system my ka project is verynearly needing a q-plate, it would only score a 9

Theres no nearly about it, it either scores 8 or more or not.

TBh it could be argued on the points system that my Nova would fail to meet it.

[HairyScreech]

Tread carefully! Unless the law has changed, which as far as I'm aware it hasn't, doing what the original poster was asking about is illegal.

Yes, altering it without informing them, thats illegal, but there are legal ways to reshell a car.

oh and buy the points system my ka project is verynearly needing a q-plate, it would only score a 9

Theres no nearly about it, it either scores 8 or more or not.

TBh it could be argued on the points system that my Nova would fail to meet it.

if i change it to independant trailing arms like im thinking of doing and use a differnt gearbox at some stage then bang its a Qplate. lol.