87 bmw 325e wont go into 1st unless rev over 3k

[rich6044]

This has been going on for more than year now. Cannot seem to find the source of the problem. Car wont go into 1st at a dead stop and is generally hard to shift in other gears. If i rev engine up past 3k rpms car will drop into 1st just fine. Now before everyone jumps in with suggestions let me tell you what all ive replaced this far. Flywheel, clutch, pressure plate throwout bearing, shift forks and the the little push pin at the end. On the pedal side ive replaced both master and slave cylinder(slave twice). The only thing original in the whole system is little blue hose from resevoir to master and i inspected thoroughly. Oh and the metal and rubber line from master to slave. Which are both dry and dont seem to be leaking. Bled and bled reverse bled countless times to no avail. If any one has any idea or even a direction to head please help! Right now ive got it rigged with an extra long slave cylinder pin and couple washers under the slave cylinder to fine tune it. But even with this mod hard to get into first and if i lay on the pedal in 4th or 5th gear engine just spins cuz clutch isnt fully engaged. Please any one there has to be something im missing. ??????

[Gavt]

Have you put a small amont of grease on the gearbox shaft that slides through the clutch. And made sure that shaft is clean and free from any corrosion or a steps dues to wear. Sounds like as youve slid the gearbox on, its holding the clutch friction plate tight against flywheel and only frees up under high revs due to harmonic frequencies allowing slight movent away while you select 1st. Maybe.

[Speedtouch]

Have you tried changing the gearbox oil? Perhaps it is too thick a grade, thus slowing down the synchromesh; either try a thinner grade oil or perhaps some Molyslip or similar oil treatment in the gearbox.

Or try the trick most vintage car owners with no synchromesh on 1st do - slip it into 2nd first then up into 1st.

[ChrisHC]

Hard to shift in all gears may indicate that the clutch is not fully disengaging, which is a problem I have had on a totally different car. If pumping the clutch before changing gear improves it, it could be the hydraulics at fault or otherwise the clutch itself is dragging.

[Speedtouch]

Indeed. Was the correct size clutch release bearing fitted? If it's too short (or the carbon thrust bearing is worn), this leads to crunching and difficult to engage gears.

[martauto]

I built a kit car ,escort based , many years ago and had a similar problem in that I changed everything in sight to no avail.
Then it struck me, if the input shaft is moving then the clutch will not work as it should so after the massive investment of £1.06 on a new spigot bearing ,everything was fine again.
These often are overlooked but play a very important part.

Mart.

[rich6044]

Thank you for yor responses, yes i greased the splines of the imput shaft last time tranny was dropped. I have also tried a slightly larger throwout bearing but the result is the same as i have now with my slave cylinder mod, i can shift into 1st but in 4th and 5th gear engine spins and eats up clutch. Spigot bearing must be a british term? Is it also called pilot bearing? If so, ive not ever changed it just because i could never find a way to get the damn thing out, but i put my little finger in and it seemed to spin just fine. Im gonna put that one on the back burner for now just cause im not looking forward to dropping the tranny again... pumping the clutch pedal does not improve ability to shift unless im pumping it and reving over 3k. Now, the transmission oil, thats where im going to start! This all started over a year ago when i did an engine swap, but i had forgotten i also put oil in the tranny, and if i remember correctly i couldnt get the drain plug to budge, so i just added oil. And it wasnt the oil the manual suggested it was just the closest number to it cuz thats all the auto parts atore carried. Feeling dumb having forgotten about this but will get it changed first thing monday hopefully it solves the problem thank you!! Ill keep u posted

[Brianmoooore]

Try changing the oil for ATF.
Spigot bearing = pilot bearing. To remove, pack the hole behind the bearing with grease, taking care not to leave any voids filled with air. Take a piece of rod marginally smaller in diameter than the end of the input shaft, and hammer it through the hole in the bearing. Hydraulic pressure will push the bearing out.

[rich6044]

Replaced tranny oil today with75w-90. No change weather permitting next weekend ill drop the tranny and try the pilot bearing. If there are anymore suggestions id love to hear them. I might just start looking for a new tranny...

[rich6044]

Replaced tranny oil today with75w-90. No change weather permitting next weekend ill drop the tranny and try the pilot bearing. If there are anymore suggestions id love to hear them. I might just start looking for a new tranny...

[Carmo13]

How and when did the problem start?

[rich6044]

About 1 1/2 ago i did an engine swap and new dual mass fly wheel. feel of the clutch wasnt the same afterward but functioned just fine for a time. About 4 months later i replaced clutch. Shifting was worse yet. Month by month replaced everything else listed. Now the whole system is pretty much new and can hardly drive the damn thing.

[Speedtouch]

Perhaps you inadvertently used a spigot/pilot bearing intended for an automatic gearbox instead of the correct manual one?

[Carmo13]

I would be going back and checking part numbers, the fitting etc of the clutch.

[Brianmoooore]

Where did you fit the flywheel bolt 'spacer'? (The flat steel ring with holes that match the flywheel bolts.)

[k]

I assume when the engine is off, you can select all gears including first, but after starting engine and depressing clutch it won't go into 1st
Personally don't think it would be the spigot bearing, but if your back in there again, it would be best to change, so it excludes any risk for minimal cost
I would carefully examine the clutch assy as I had a Valeo clutch in one vehicle that made the car un- driveable. Turns out the face of pressure plate was incorrectly machined, slight angle on the face, when it should be flat as all other clutches are. Valeo wouldn't agree it was defective, however a Luc clutch went in which was machined flat and all was well again. Think about fitting a new clutch and resetting all tweaks to standard, my money is on the clutch assy

[Speedtouch]

I suppose in that instance, maybe a few deliberate episodes of 'riding' the clutch pedal (i.e., to cause slight clutch slip) may help, to grind down any excess clutch plate material, to ensure a flat surface.

[k]

Went through all that slipping business before the clutch was removed. Put a straight edge across the face of the cover (clutch to plate face) and there was taper going from zero to .07mm on the inside.
This is a hardened ground face, and no amount of slipping would have corrected it
Would show you a pic, but doesn't want to upload

[k]

The above reply should have said 0.7mm, was getting near bedtime

[rich6044]

Problem started about a year ago when i did an engine swap. The clutch pedal went from engaging at 3/4 from the top of pedat depression. To engaging as soon as the pedal laft the floor. Still shifted alright in the beginning but has gotten gradually worse since then. Hence all of the part replacements...

[rich6044]

Problem started about a year ago when i did an engine swap. The clutch pedal went from engaging at 3/4 from the top of pedat depression. To engaging as soon as the pedal laft the floor. Still shifted alright in the beginning but has gotten gradually worse since then. Hence all of the part replacements...

[rich6044]

Well ill be dropping the tranny this weekend, not looking forward to it as it just dropped below freezing and i dont have a garage. I will keep you posted with part numbers, bought a pilot bearing and a spacer disc because i dont remember putting one on when i did flywheel guess ill find out soon enough...

[Brianmoooore]

and a spacer disc because....

It is NOT a spacer. It is a load spreader/one piece washer that fits immediately under the heads of the flywheel retaining bolts.
I asked because it has been known for them to be fitted between the crankshaft and flywheel, which will move the clutch fingers slightly closer to the release bearing, so could possibly have some effect on clutch operation.

[rich6044]

Just to be certain the spacer plate goes inbetween the flywheel and the wngine right?

[Brianmoooore]

NO!! You should be looking straight at it before you fit the clutch driven and cover plates.

[rich6044]

Well in this case, do you think using it as a spacer, that is (putting it between flywheel and crank) might improve my situation? Pushing everything forward may improve my situation

[Brianmoooore]

Definitely no! A flywheel detaching itself at 6000RPM is quite capable of chewing its way through the bell housing, the transmission tunnel, and your legs.

[rich6044]

Well there goes plan b... so the clutch i got was a luk 03-011 still looking for part no on flywheel

[rich6044]

Flywheel part # 21-21-1-225-979

[Brianmoooore]

I take it this is all apart again? Check that the bore of the spigot bearing matches the size of the end of the gearbox input shaft. Two sizes were used.

[rich6044]

So there are two replacement pilot bearings one larger in diameter that traveles the legth of tranny spindle with plenty oof room around to wobble and one smaller diameter (the one installed) that sit right at the tip of the spindle but wont travel the length of it which one is the right one? Also anymore tricks to getting the pilot bearing out? Tried the grease trick, didnt work for me

[Brianmoooore]

and one smaller diameter (the one installed) that sit right at the tip of the spindle but wont travel the length of it

could this be the problem? The spigot on the end of the input shaft should pass right through the bearing centre. It's a tight fit, but should be just tight enough to ensure that the bearing turns with the shaft. Is it possible that careless assembly has pushed the bearing too deep into the recess in the end of the crankshaft?

Also anymore tricks to getting the pilot bearing out? Tried the grease trick, didnt work for me

Never known it to fail, as long as the rod you're hammering through the centre hole is a nice tight fit, and there's no air trapped. Any air acts as a shock absorber, reducing the peak pressure forcing the bearing out considerably.

[rich6044]

Well i put in the one that is snug at the end of the spindle, still wrenching but ill let u know the result

[jmc330i]

Also anymore tricks to getting the pilot bearing out? Tried the grease trick, didnt work for me

Never known it to fail, as long as the rod you're hammering through the centre hole is a nice tight fit, and there's no air trapped. Any air acts as a shock absorber, reducing the peak pressure forcing the bearing out considerably.

I've never failed with the grease method, but early one Sunday morning with no grease to hand, I did try the bread method. It worked surprisingly well and with little mess, but cocked up my plans for bacon sarnies!

[martauto]

Also anymore tricks to getting the pilot bearing out? Tried the grease trick, didnt work for me

Never known it to fail, as long as the rod you're hammering through the centre hole is a nice tight fit, and there's no air trapped. Any air acts as a shock absorber, reducing the peak pressure forcing the bearing out considerably.

I've never failed with the grease method, but early one Sunday morning with no grease to hand, I did try the bread method. It worked surprisingly well and with little mess, but cocked up my plans for bacon sarnies!

I'm never failed to be suprised

Mart.