Paint Spraying Question

[knob]

Hi everyone,
My Is is nearly ready for its respray and I have a question for the paint experts out there......
I will be using solid colour 2 pack paint (Brilliant Red); How many coats would you recommend to produce a BMW quality of finish and would you recommend flatting between any of the coats?

Would you agree that 2 pack is the best paint to use, assuming that the proper respirator is used and other safety requirements are met. I can get the use of a decent spray booth

With metallic finishes, clear over basecoats, how many coats of base colour and how many coats of laquer would you advise to apply.
Thanks in advance
Jim

[motormanmick]

Sorry, not an expert, but have been doing a dvd course in pray painting, my e30 is alpine weiss and am doing 2 pack, 2 coats in 2k primer and 4 coats in color, tack ragging between coats, when finished, dvd suggests to leave it a month for the paint to fully harden up before any polish and wax, if you need to remove any blemishes, wet sand 1500 grit, the 2000 grit, then buff with a fine cutting compound, then swirl remover for a great finish, the paint I am using is BASF and has a great shine straight off the gun. cheers.

[knob]

Thanks Motormanmick,
Interesting to note you are putting on 4 colour coats. The paint I have looked at, PPG 2 pack, advises 2 or 3 coats "depending on the finish required" but suggests flatting after the second coat before applying the final coat.
Think I will check out some different paint suppliers to work out the best one, I dont fancy flatting down coats half way through as I would rather try and achieve and leave a good finish straight of the gun.
In the old days of cellulose paints flatting down between coats was the norm but that was an easy paint to work with any problems were easily fixed.
2 Pack paints are a bit of a black art to me and slightly scary........
Whats the name of the DVD course you have been doing and any good ?
Cheers
Jim

[motormanmick]

Thanks Knob,
I went with 4 coats as I am painting in my garage, so have allowed for extra paint if I have some serious cutting to tidy up mistakes. I am reasonably handy but have no knowledge of body work or spray painting. I tack ragged between coats and as mentioned above the paint looks great straight off the gun.

I bought my paint after talking to a good supplier and he matched the product to me and my skill and made sure I had a good respirator, air compressor and basic gear, must say I am impressed with the BASF product, it is a less expensive brand of one of the big name companies.

Course covers all things, 2 pack color, 2 pack base and clear, all body work and all shown on video, I think what I will do next and check that out on the videos and then go and do it, the hardest part for me was having the courage to start and over come the fear of wrecking my pride and joy. Cheers.

http://www.learnautobodyandpaint.com/

[knob]

Cheers motormanmick,
Aye its a scary moment when you apply your first coat of top coat, priming is relatively easy as you know you will be rubbing it down and have less fear of being uneven in your coats.
I'm still a couple of weeks away from applying the top coat and in the meantime I will check out and speak to other paint suppliers to get the right product for me.
Thanks
Jim

[powelly]

Where are you painting it?? You say respirator, do you mean an air fed mask??? This is what you should be using for 2k.
No you don't need to flat between coats, why use 2k direct gloss and not COB, the latter would certainly be my preference, more durable in my experience.

[motormanmick]

Tanks powelly,
painting in my garage mostly, I do make sure I have cross flow air movement away from me, mask is 3m meant for this sought of work, would definitely prefer air fed though as am ex smoker and time in the navy so lungs aren't 100%. Not sure what you mean by COB, my system was recommended by a local supplier here in Australia to suite our conditions and climate when laying on the primer and color, with regards to durability, time will tell, I don't plan on ever parting with the car, but product is BASF Glasurit, a major player on the market and a supplier to some European car makers, but definitely take on board what you are saying, will do a bit more home work, thanks.

[powelly]

COB=clear over base, base coat and a lacquer... I can sort of see why the paint shop guy would recommend direct gloss for DIY, it's one gun setup, less processes etc, still I stand by what I say, If your going to the trouble of doing this, you may as well go the whole hog, I don't know of any body shops using direct gloss anymore and we certainly don't use it here at work. We had Glasurit up until last year but changed to Spies Hecker, it is excellent paint and approved by lots of manufacturers, that's why it's pricey. I guess you'll just be using air dry thinner, still probably pretty warm in Oz at the moment I imagine so it will harden up pretty quick.
Some negative things I have to say. There is NO respirator other than air fed recommended or approved for 2k isocyanate, read the manufacturer data sheets, also consult your health and safety guidelines, don't get me wrong, I'm no stickler for rules but when it comes to this stuff, safety first always, it can make it's way in to your blood stream through contact with skin, eyes, all sorts of ways, it's nasty stuff!!! You say have some potential respiratory problems, after painting this car you might well have a few more, worse a hospital stay, I have seen this first hand with painters and it's not pretty. Is a shiny car really worth risking your health for???? I don't know what gun setup you'll be using but my guess is that without a negative pressure booth you'll be standing in an atomized cloud of 2k paint overspray for an extended period of time, it's not a very good picture.

[Kos]

Tac rag between 2k coats .....

So many things affect how the paint lays and comes out varying from air temp to the gun you use

As for 2k, not for me. Id be using base and clear

[knob]

Hi guys,
I can see the argument for using clear over base rather than solid, with a high gloss from the gun set up, paint but is the clear coat not a 2 pack paint as well, albeit with no colour in it ?

So you will still have the clouds of 2k over spray when applying it in a conventional garage.

Or is the clear over base paint you would recommend cellulose based?

you mention that professionals dont use the "direct gloss paints" anymore, so does that mean you have to spend a bit of time polishing the surfaces to get that glossy look?

Do you think the shine from a clear over base finish ever looks as good, with regard to depth of shine and texture, of a well finished solid colour paint?

Cheers
Jim

[powelly]

Ok, I perhaos could have been a bit clearer. In this context both the direct gloss you guys talk about and the clear coat I am talking about are 2k, with my method you would use a coloured base coat, normally water based these days, you then cover that in a 2k clear lacquer, this is your glossy top coat. In my experience, you get a better, more durable outcome over the direct gloss method. Direct gloss is essentially a lacquer with colour in it. I'm not saying no pro uses it anymore but I have certainly not come across any.
2k refers to the need to mix two components together, for example the lAcquer and a hardener.

[knob]

Thanks Powelly,
Either way, applying 2k solid colour or laquer we will need to use a proper air fed(separate air supply) mask and any other recommended safety measures when using the 2k products.

One other wee problem with applying laquer in a conventional garage is seeing what your doing to ensure a consistent "wet" finish. Its hard enough with some colours but the laquer is much worse.

It would be nice and satisfying to be able to do this part of the "restoration" yourself but it may be that it might be better and safer to get a pro to do it........
Thanks for your responses
Jim

[powelly]

Whether it's direct gloss or clear lacquer you need an air fed mask to spray, of course you will no doubt come across people who will say they've been spraying for years and never used sa mask and of course they're fine!!! They are either lying or just lucky, they might not be forever.
Air Feds should be supplied from a clean air source, this usually means it comes off the workshop compressor and goes through a 3 stage filter, you could use a separate compressor away from the spraying area though, you still need filters though, compressed air is full of nasties!!!unless you have a BIG compressor...
Seriously to do it properley you need a lot of kit.
You pays your money you take your choice!!
By all accounts do all your prep work, filler etc, even do some spot priming with some aerosol etch primer, leave the big stuff to the pros though with the right gear.
Keeping a wet edge with clear is no different to a colour, you are applying over a colour, you can see the edge as the base is matte.

[motormanmick]

Thanks guys for all the great information, I think sometimes we do it yourselfers like to stand back after its all done and say we did it all, but don't take into account the risks we may be taking.
I will have a closer look at how I am doing things, look at an air feed mask and go from there, I may end up doing all the body work/prep work and then get the professionals to lay on the color for me. cheers.