Viscous Fan, Fan Clutch, and Radiator Advice...

[Falamon]

Hey all. Replacing the above today as I've a really noisy Viscous clutch, thought i'd do the radiator and fan at the same time.

Do I need any special tools? My local garage advised I may need a realy thin/flat spanner, possibly 32mm? They've offered to lend me one but I don't know what size it will need to be.

Is it an opposite thread? I assume the clutch tightens up and the spinning of it keeps it tight to the engine, it seems like it'll need a good "crack" with a spanner to release it.

Any tips on draining the radiator? I'd obviously rather not get coolant everywhere.

Cheers all.

[daimlerman]

32mm spanner for the fan assembly,and yes,it has a 'left hand' thread.
You may need a long cold chisel and big birmingham spanner to get the thing to free off,however.

Draining the coolant,it is difficult to capture the stuff,and you are not supposed to let it enter the ground/drainage system....I use the old washing up bowl that 'er indoors gave me after the first time I 'borrowed' it and got caught.....

[HairyScreech]

Bike shops will sell you a narrow 32mm spanner, it is a common size for some threaded headset cups/locking nuts.

Coolant wise, loosen a clip and get it trickling, then spend the time it is draining to get the fan off.

Use a good quality ethylene glycol based coolant to fill it back up. It's what they were designed for.

[Falamon]

Perfect, 32mm was the one they offered to lend me! Nice to have local helpful garages.

When you say about the chisel and spanner, is that to physically get it off the body once undone?

I've actually got an old washing up bowl, also donated to me from the old dear after being caught too

[Falamon]

Bike shops will sell you a narrow 32mm spanner, it is a common size for some threaded headset cups/locking nuts.

Coolant wise, loosen a clip and get it trickling, then spend the time it is draining to get the fan off.

Use a good quality ethylene glycol based coolant to fill it back up. It's what they were designed for.

Cheers Hairy

Is the method to replace the lot as follows:

Take shroud off
Take fan off from coupling?
Remove coupling
Remove radiator
Replace radiator
Refit/Refill radiator
Fit coupling
Fit Fan
Fit shroud... done?

Any other steps or issues I may run into? Assume the fan is pretty tight onto the coupling...

[daimlerman]

You may need the hammer and chisel to get the thing to loosen off,by placing the chisel on the 32mm nut and giving it a welly!

[Falamon]

Ah I see, ok try a chisel possibly if the spanner won't do it?

If it's a LH thread I don't need to chock the fan do I? Sorry that's probably a thick question.

[DanThe]

What sort of noise? If its a scraping or bearing noise it will more than likely be the waterpump. With the engine off grab the viscous and see if you can move the pulley up/down left/right, any play will be the waterpump bearings

[daimlerman]

Ah I see, ok try a chisel possibly if the spanner won't do it?

If it's a LH thread I don't need to chock the fan do I? Sorry that's probably a thick question.

That's right,stopping the pulley turning is the biggest problem that you will face.
When you put it all back together,just spin the 32mm nut on,there's no need to over-tighten it,and it helps,getting the bugger off next time!

[DanThe]

Flat length of bar with a hole in it to sit over one of the bolts on the pulley holds it perfectly, no need to smash it off

[Falamon]

It's a weird noise. When I pull away I hear a small whirring noise up til about 20mph and at speed the car isn't making as much noise. But it's also slightly knocking, shaking sound.. Sounds like a heat shield being tapped slightly...

A good friend of mine and landrover tech diagnosed it as the viscous, so I can only hope it's that.

I actually bought a water pump but i'm not confident enough to do the timing belt as car's i've had previously the water pump wasn't driven by the timing belt, so i don't want to mess something so important up.

Will get the Fan/Rad/Viscous on tonight and update you all tomorrow. The car's not getting hot when sitting for a while, so i'm praying it's just the fan coupling and not the waterpump

[daimlerman]

These engines are not difficult to work on,there's reasonable room all around for all regular service items.

Waterpump/cambelt is not that difficult,just needs care to get the belt on correctly.

[Falamon]

These engines are not difficult to work on,there's reasonable room all around for all regular service items.

Waterpump/cambelt is not that difficult,just needs care to get the belt on correctly.

I thought you had to use a timing light and all that jazz? I'll have a read up, but that's one thing i'd be hesitant to try...

EDIT - ok it doesn't seem to bad, but i'm still a tad wary. I'll have a crack on tonight (if the bad weather sods off) and be back on here later!

[daimlerman]

No timing light needed!

Just align the marks on the cam pulley and the crank pulley.The risk is getting the belt more than a couple of teeth out,that can give you problems,but there will be a decent guide in the wiki.

It's just that whilst you have the fan off and the radiator out,it's silly not to go the extra bit and do a proper job.

First time I did a cambelt,maybe seven or eight years back now,it took me about three hours,now,with practice it's down to an hour or so.
Probably takes longer to bleed the cooling system than to do the job.

[Brianmoooore]

I actually bought a water pump but i'm not confident enough to do the timing belt as car's i've had previously the water pump wasn't driven by the timing belt,

BMW certainly do not use this cheapskate method of driving the water pump! The cam belt drives the cams and distributor only.

If you use the flat bar to hold the pump pulley still, as suggested by DanThe, use a longer 6mm bolt than the one you remove from the pulley. The ones holding the pulley have very little spare thread on them, and won't engage far enough into the threaded holes in the drive flange to stop the thread pulling out when going through the extra thickness of the bar.

[Quaser]

you dont need to remove the timing belt to do the waterpump on these cars.

this tool will be handy to keep the waterpump held in place:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Water-Pum ... 232c227708

[Falamon]

Ok, thanks for the link

I may be getting confused. Sorry to revert back up the thread.

If i didn't want to do the waterpump tonight, just radiator, fan and viscous clutch, I don't need to take any belts off do I? I just need to find something to hold the viscous in place while undoing it...?

From what I gather, the viscous clutch fits onto the front of the waterpump?

And you need to wedge/stop the pulley from moving to undo the viscous...

Or have I got this completely wrong. Sorry for all the questions. I'm sitting at my desk and can't get to the car to have a butchers

[Quaser]

you need to hold the waterpump to take off the viscous fan using that tool - or use the hammer and chisel method as mentioned previously

[Falamon]

Ok perfect, thanks mate.

[Brianmoooore]

IF the viscous coupling was done up properly the last time it was fitted, then no tools are needed to remove it, other than the 32mm spanner and a hammer to tap the spanner with, BUT occasionally you come across one where the previous "mechanic" seemed to think the coupling needed fitting with Loctite and/or needed to be done up to 200Nm. This is when you need the flat bar.
I'm absolutely in favour of capital punishment for anyone found guilty of using a cold chisel on this nut!

[Falamon]

Brilliant, thanks Brian.

I'm tempted to now do the lot (Including timing belt, seeing as i've already bought a water pump) .

As it seems like it'll be the best idea considering the radiator will be off.

I'm a bit hesitant but I can always cancel weekend plans if it goes wrong and the car needs to be off the road

Do ContiTech make OK belts? I've not heard of them but they are singing their own praises on their website!

[Grrrmachine]

Contitech are the preferred choice for belts. Remember to get the tensioner as well.

[Falamon]

OK so I'll just grab a timing belt kit? It looks like a belt and tensioner together in one!

[Falamon]

UPDATE - So everything is off ready to go back together, it's taken forever but I didn't want to rush. Couple of issues...

The only bit that won't come off is the lower stud holding the upper tensioner pulley on. Whoever's had it before me has rounded it slightly, I've hardly put any pressure on it and I can see it'll just slip.

I've tried grips on the other end which is a larger 16mm flat bit, but that was close to being rounded already so I'm not pushing it too much. It did crack a slight bit with the grips, but I'm really hesitant to push it. I haven't got a long 16mm socket or a split ring spanner to use

I obviously want to replace the tensioner (the belt and tensioner look quite new) but if I can't get it off is it too serious? I assume it's not advised to not replace it.

The water pump was a mess, and yeah the bearings were gone. I've told my mate to stick to land rovers
ECP have got the parts completely wrong:

1). The water pump is the wrong model entirely, I didn't notice until now, completely my fault but I can get that rectified tomorrow.

2). The thermostat doesn't seem to seal as tightly as I thought it would, or as tightly as the old one came off. It's this model -

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/BMW_3 ... 83b&000325

When tightening it didn't feel as though it was squashing the gasket seal as well as it should, everything's round the right way etc. I'll have to wait and see when it's eventually back up and running.

3). The Dizzy cap and rotor arm are completely different

[Brianmoooore]

The only bit that won't come off is the lower stud holding the upper tensioner pulley on.

????What engine are we dealing with here?????

Don't ever order anything from ECP, etc., using a date that overlaps E36 production. You'll get E36 parts every time!

[Falamon]

320i Engine.

The wiki guide mentions it as being the "upper tensioner pulley" it's this bit -



Any idea? Thanks Brian.

[Falamon]

Would heating it work? Or is penetrating oil/patience better? Any tools better suited to it?

[daimlerman]

Why do you need to remove it?

[Falamon]

The guide says to take that stud off to get the tensioner off so I can replace it, I can't get it off any other way that I can see... Everything else is undone just not this stud thing.

[daimlerman]

Of course!

When you spin the tensioner,is it smooth in operation,or as rough as a badger?

[Quaser]

cant you get a socket on the hexagonal bit??

[Falamon]

I'm going to get a deeper 16mm socket tomorrow, hopefully that will resolve it!

The tensioner is smooth as butter. I think it's relatively new, just a shame the guy didn't take care when replacing it. (previous owner - one of the dizzy bolts was snapped and left with half the thread/bolt sticking out!)

Hoping I can get it off, if not, is it the end of the world leaving it on there and using the old tensioner? I could always cut it and use an extractor I suppose...

[Quaser]

whats the dizzy got to do with the tensioner?

[Falamon]

It doesn't really, I was just mentioning it was a shame the previous owner has left it a bit of a mess that's all

[hennabm]

Soak the threads in plus gas or other serious rust buster - so avoid WD40.

If the smaller hex is rounded off to the point that a spanner will not fit then a set of small mole grips around that and then another set of mole grips just up the shaft, in line with those on the hex and use both to try and twist it loose. This will spread the torque and hopefuly avoid it snapping off.

When it comes to rebuild - buy a new one so you won't have the same trouble next time.