Very annoying missfire/idle/kangaroo problem

[bumhole]

Hi, I have trawled the forum pages trying to find the answer to my problem but I can't find one that is exactly the same.
Any help would be very much appreciated as I'm pulling hair out now!
It was my friends car, he ran it for about 4 years as his daily driver.
It then developed a kangarooing effect when accelerating at any rate.
He then left it rotting on his Nan's drive for 3 years and the problem never fixed itself. I then suggested it would make a superb track day car
and relieved his Nan of it. I'm slowly getting down to it but have never fixed the problem with the engine. The car starts perfectly, it runs for about 30 seconds perfectly. It then starts dramatically hunting from idle revs down to an almost stall and back up to idle again. The ticking from the ICV also seems more pronounced when it does this and the tick follows the revs up and down. I have pulled the plug out of the ICV and it stops hunting and revs higher. I thought it must be the ICV so I bought one off ebay, put it on and it does exactly the same. I also changed the dizzy cap, rotor arm and plugs. I thought maybe giving it a bootfull down the road might help so I did that today, it kangarood then misfired and blew a hole in the backbox!
So that probably wasn't the answer.
It's a 320i 1989 and is being done on zero funds which doesn't help either.
I also have put some pics on.
One is of a sunroof patch that we joddled and tig'd in which works quite well if you have the patience of a saint.
I'm trying to get it ready for a roadtrip to Spa in the summer.
Thanks very much for any info, Jody

• 
  
  

[Cloud]

HT leads.

That first picture is great, I love when they look special and shite at the same time.

[bumhole]

Definately more of the shite than special unfortunately.
Them two 'mates' in the other picture really loved spending one day ripping it to bits.

I was really hoping you weren't going to say leads because they are pretty expensive.

I assume German and Swedish is the best place?

Thanks

[handpaper]

I had a kangarooing problem; removing the ICV 'cured' it. On a trackday car I wouldn't worry too much, as long as it behaves itself when you give it the beans

[abelai]

A lot of people have this fault to a greater or lesser degree you might want to try checking the charging system (alternator earth and voltage regulator pack). I have experienced this fault and changing the voltage regulator has improved the idle so I might go the whole hog and replace the alternator.

[bumhole]

Funny you say alternator because The batteries I have had on it don't seem to hold their charge. I had just put that down to me not being able to take it out for a run. I have just put a brand new battery on it so I can move it around. That has held charge for two weeks with a few starts and stops on my drive. I did also read somewhere that the ecu has to reset itself if the battery goes dead which causes similar problems, another reason why I changed the battery.
I'll give it a go without the ICV on when I finish welding and see what happens! Will it pass an mot though do you think?
I got my torch out and had a look what it did to the back box when it misfired, it actually ripped the seam open down its lengnth, I hope there were flames!
Thanks for your help, got a few more things to try now.

[Alex]

at your username

[mrscisco]

I had the same problem on mine and how annoying it is. I cleaned the ICV and throttle body and discovered a split in the intake boot. This cost only £6 from a forum member and solved my problem. Car drives like it should now. Good luck

[abelai]

The diodes in the alternator can fail and cause a drain on the battery as current will be able to flow back to the alternator this will also mean it can output ac voltage to the circuits in the car or only halfwave rectification.

Now as the centre pin on the ICV is NBV (nominal battery voltage) this could cause issues if as it won't be able to keep up with the changing voltage. This is just a possible theory, but it would be nice if you could prove or disprove this.

[toby]

Air leak? Have you tried spraying wd40 around the air intake to see it there's an air leak? If some WD40 gets sucked in the engine note would change and indicate a split in a rubber pipe.

Alternatively over fuelling? Did it sound rich when you drove it though?

[omgyjya_switch7]

Mine had this recently too. I changed the AFM and now the problem has 90% disappeared, but there is still more to it. Now the car feels like it wants to kangaroo, but wont go for it.

[handpaper]

I'll give it a go without the ICV on when I finish welding and see what happens! Will it pass an mot though do you think?

Adjust it so it idles properly when warm and you'll be fine.

Intake boot is worth checking if your idle is uneven (up and down continually), it's only 15 quid from the dealer.

[abelai]

Well if unpluging the idle control valve stops the hunting it proves 2 things:

1. Not a vacuum leak

2. Its electrical

[Speedtouch]

Does it have a 0 261 200 381 ECU? If so, it's possible that the idle control valve diodes have blown - a common problem with later 380/381 ECUs. You could try replacing it for the earlier 172 type.

[bumhole]

Right, had another look today. The intake boot is fine but the short hose off the ICV to the throttle body has two splits in it. (you can only see them when you bend it) Will try and get one tomorrow from somewhere. (Toby) it absoloutely reaks of fuel from the exhaust, think thats what probably caused the small explosion. Other than the kangarooing it sounds as it should I think.
Also, don't know if this is anything, but I pulled the plug out of the air flow meter (when car is running) and it made no difference to the engine. I thought it must do something?
I'll try the Witches piss trick once I get this pipe sorted.
Is there anything in particular I should be cleaning on the throttle body or just bath it in carb cleaner? Think this would be worth a stab too.
Thanks again

[bumhole]

Ecu is a 172

[abelai]

If the car is stinking of fuel you might want to check the FPR is good as they can fail allowing the vacuum pipe on them to suck fuel into the inlet manifold.

[clipper]

I'm following this thread closely as my idle problems are identical. OK on start up, starts hunting when it warms up, running rich and unplugging the ICV gives a stable if a bit high idle.

No one has suggested that Mr Bumhole checks the blue temp sesor though ? If its over fuelling when warm surely the temp sensor would be first port of call ? (Didn't help on mine, but worth checking, no?)

Bumhole, if you take the oil cap off while its hunting, does it settle the idle ?

[Supafly]

Check as above,

Blue coolant temp sensor *

Pipe going from the inlet manifold to the fuel pressure regulator

check for air leaks around manifold

also check the throttle position switch is working as it should*

then check the wiring connector beneath the throttle body and check all four areas of contact, the pins both sides and also behind the rubber boot both sides

* - These would be my first checks after making sure the flexible pipes are intact.

Then let us know how you get on good luck

[Sawyer_E30]

If the car is stinking of fuel you might want to check the FPR is good as they can fail allowing the vacuum pipe on them to suck fuel into the inlet manifold.

My motor does this, it has a rough idle when you first start off, and there is a really strong smell of fuel for the 1st 5 minutes. Although something which I'm not to happy with is that is you pass 4,800 rpm - 5,200, it splutters and runs really rich causing lovely black smoke.

[toby]

Right, had another look today. The intake boot is fine but the short hose off the ICV to the throttle body has two splits in it. (you can only see them when you bend it) Will try and get one tomorrow from somewhere. (Toby) it absoloutely reaks of fuel from the exhaust, think thats what probably caused the small explosion. Other than the kangarooing it sounds as it should I think.
Also, don't know if this is anything, but I pulled the plug out of the air flow meter (when car is running) and it made no difference to the engine. I thought it must do something?
I'll try the Witches pee pee trick once I get this pipe sorted.
Is there anything in particular I should be cleaning on the throttle body or just bath it in carb cleaner? Think this would be worth a stab too.
Thanks again

Well done on finding the split hose. Check if there are any other splits/ loose jubilee clips. Get the short ICV hose from BMW - it doesn't cost much. It would be also worth replacing the rubber pipe to the rocker box cover as it is prone to split and can't be examined as it's under the inlet manifold. (Number 5 in the link http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=15 )

It's worth trying the cheapest bits to renew first I suppose. Try to rule out the air leak first and see how it is after that.

Clean the Idle Control Valve out with brake/carb cleaner.

Let us know what happens next...

[Nemo]

I think it would be worth you having a look at Sparkys responses to his 'electrical or fuelling problems' thread as mine is doing the same as yours only when accelerating and there are a few more ideas on there

[bumhole]

Didn't manage to get the pipe today and had to move the 320 out of the garage (girlfriend winging that her screen might frost up!!!) I also hadn't read the responses before I moved it sorry. I did however decide to 'tape' up the end of the ICV and the 90 degree ally pipe that goes into throttle body before moving it out and left the plug off the ICV. It didn't hunt but wouldn't tick over without me keeping the gas on. I also took it for a cheeky blast down our lane and Bingo, no kangarooing! In fact it went like a beast, sounded strong, pulled well and no splutter. The lack of brakes or windscreen was quite scary though

So, Tomorrow I will get the new hose (luckily the guy in the unit next to ours at work makes performance silicon hoses.
Didn't know whether he would make a special little pipe for me but he said he will, top man!)
On that note actually, he said if ten or so people were interested in buying full hose kits he said he would make the moulds for them and sell them. Their name is Roose motorsport if you wanna google it and see the gear! Not sure how different the hoses are between the models as he would only have mine as templates?

Anyway, thanks again for all your helpful advice I will defo give the ICV a clean and check for leaks and this temp sensor sounds interesting i'll try and GSF one of them tomorrow too. Then i'll look at the other suggestions.

That black smoke sounds bad Sawyer. My mate had a similar thing with his e36 touring at them kind of revs. When he took the head off, one of the valves had about a third of it missing. He had blue smoke on start up though too.

[Sawyer_E30]

That black smoke sounds bad Sawyer. My mate had a similar thing with his e36 touring at them kind of revs. When he took the head off, one of the valves had about a third of it missing. He had blue smoke on start up though too.

I've never had blue smoke it acts normal then goes BLACK.

Although I will not argue at all because my current ones got 152,000 miles on it.

[E30Gheko]

Also, don't know if this is anything, but I pulled the plug out of the air flow meter (when car is running) and it made no difference to the engine. I thought it must do something?

Take the air box or filter off (whichever you are running) and you should be able to see the slide moving in the air flow meter as you rev the engine. You might need a mate to help with this because mine tends to stall without the filter on. Also try taking it off altogether and make sure it moves freely.

[swllt]

I added a strut brace and the "Kanggarooing" stopped on my 320i.

It was the Injector earths on the top of the strut housing - worth cleaning all the earths before you spend any more.

[bumhole]

Huh thats a weird one. I'll check!
Thanks

[bumhole]

Thanks to all who helped, turns out it must have been that little pipe from the ICV. I put the new one on and no more kangarooing!!! It still idles all over the shop when I first start it but then clears itself after about five minutes of running. It then idles fine. Hopefully thats just the fact that because it sits on the drive and only goes in and out of the garage and inevitably the battery goes flat and the ECU has to reset itself?