** Battery/starting Issue... still not fixed!!!**

[aceraf]

Firstly its a e30 325i touring m20b25.

The car will normally start 1st time in the mornings, and then start to stutter slightly when you keep starting and stopping (i.e. short journeys).

Over the last few days when it's got colder it's now getting worse, and sometimes you turn the key and nothing happens.

Swapped the battery over with the one from my 316 but that wouldn't start it....

however if i jump start the car, then it'll start 1st time!

I'm pretty sure that it's the battery as once started i my brother disconnected the power cable (only for a few seconds to test), to the battery and the car kept running so i'm guessing the alternator is okay, and the starter isn't clicking or anything so i presume that's okay.

Basically what i want to know is what Ampage battery should this engine have?

This is an annoying problem and i want to get it sorted asap with winter coming up if the batteries weak it's just going to get worse


Thanks for your replies in advance.

[mrLEE30]

look at your sig pic the lights have been left on

not sure on correct battery but mine is 75Ah (fell off the back of an E class ).

try cleaning your battery contacts with fine sand paper (about 400-800 grade should be ok), and the inside of your battery leads.... could just be corrosion... if not then its a new battery i am afraid

[aceraf]

The battery has white grease all over the terminals, and when cleaned the terminals and power cables are both clean...

i don't mind buying a new battery as i'd rather not save money on issues to do with starting...but i need to know which one i need...

I got a quote from one place for a battery at £75, but it was a shit brand so i'm going to see if i can find a bosch battery.

Am i right in thinking i need something that's 80 or 90amps??? I'm sure i read that somewhere!

Also, the car has an old alarm that doesn't work, and an immobliliser that i don't like as it has a hi-fi type jack that you have to manually insert into the receiver mounted on the centre console to disable it.

I'm sure a system that old can't be good! Not sure if these are causing any type of drain on the battery! (don't have a volt meter tester type thing )

[maxfield]

Dealers are apparently pretty cheap.

[aceraf]

never even thought about that!!!

will pop round to my local to see what they quote!

Do you know what ampage i need?

[maxfield]

Haven't the foggiest.

[aceraf]

damn, you normally know everything about e30's!

[mrLEE30]

cleaned the terminals and power cables are both clean...

clean on the ouside or clean on the area where they contact???

75 quid for a cheap battery???? fec me every day i am glad i left uk!!!

but.... a trip to any half decent garage (preferably one that does not sell batteries) and they will have a battery tester... its kind of a multimeter with a load reisistor which allows you to test if a battery is good or otherwise... secondly contrary to most peoples beliefs starting a car uses quite a lot of power, and a short trip to the shops will NEVER charge the battery up as much as you used it.. even more so if you have the lights, stereo, wipes on etc etc, so several such short journeys will result in the battery being more drained that when you started.... to solve this you need to get/buy/borrow a proper slow charger and charge the thing for at least 24hours, if this thing still does not hold charge after thet then the battery is beyond repair (the internal plates oxidise and prevents/hinders the chemical reaction that allows a battery to work and be charged)

mrlee

[aceraf]

cleaned the terminals and power cables are both clean...

clean on the ouside or clean on the area where they contact???

75 quid for a cheap battery???? fec me every day i am glad i left uk!!!

but.... a trip to any half decent garage (preferably one that does not sell batteries) and they will have a battery tester... its kind of a multimeter with a load reisistor which allows you to test if a battery is good or otherwise... secondly contrary to most peoples beliefs starting a car uses quite a lot of power, and a short trip to the shops will NEVER charge the battery up as much as you used it.. even more so if you have the lights, stereo, wipes on etc etc, so several such short journeys will result in the battery being more drained that when you started.... to solve this you need to get/buy/borrow a proper slow charger and charge the thing for at least 24hours, if this thing still does not hold charge after thet then the battery is beyond repair (the internal plates oxidise and prevents/hinders the chemical reaction that allows a battery to work and be charged)

mrlee

Sounds like the problem i'm having with the battery getting weaker the more i try to start it when doing short journeys.

I have a battery charger, will try charging it up and see if it holds the charge.

Only problem is it's random sometimes, and will work if i leave it for 30mins???

I want a powerful battery so i'm probably looking at £100+ if i'm after bosch!

[mrLEE30]

Only problem is it's random sometimes, and will work if i leave it for 30mins???

somtimes as you use the battery frequently gas bubbles are ceated in the liquid or gel filling your battery, again this hinders the chemical reaction required to provide current, sometimes leaving it for some time will allow these bubbles to dissolve and the battery can work more effciently again- the result is it starts fine.

I want a powerful battery so i'm probably looking at £100+ if i'm after bosch!

dont get a more powerful battery as the alternator can only provide a finite amount of charging current.. thus a big battery will likely not get charged anyway and knacker the alternator to boot!!! get a better battery... i swear by the gel filled ones... i have one in my cab which only gets used in our winter (today i started it for the first time since early June and fired first time) i also have a gel battery on my boat (these are notorious for battery drain due ro damp wires etc) but the gel filled ones keep on runnin!!!

as i suggested mine is 75Ah (stands for Ampere-hours) and its fine, and i run a big sub with no worries

mrlee

[big_jof]

Buy a varta blue - great batteries.

Got a quote for a 325 yesterday after I stupidly cooked mine at 24v - £70 from SYBS Leeds - Included some work discount but still cheaper than the bosch and I've never had a problem with one yet (got three personally and we've fit loads for jobs). SYBS main place is based in sheffield. http://www.sybsgroup.co.uk/

[aceraf]

I'm just thinking, could this be a different issue?

The car starts fine when cold, and only gives that problem when hot...so could it be a hot start problem?

I hear what everyone's saying, but want to be sure i'm fixing the right thing!

at 4pm the car wouldn't start....tried it again at 4.30pm same, nothing happening when i turn the key...

and yet just popped out now (when it's freezing) and it's starting fine....turned it off, turned the tape and lights on for 5mins and then tried again, and it started fine!

This is really starting to puzzle me now!

When i swapped the batteries over it did start the 316 but i presumed it was because the 316 would need less current to start it! And yet even though it started the 316 fine, when put back in the 325 it wouldn't do anything.

But then jump starting it when hot did start it also....

aaarrrggghhhh i'm so confused

Does anyone else think there's anything in the hot start thing considering it will start if jumped when hot?

[stickupkid11]

i had the same problem over the past week or so, it does sound like its the battary, £75 is alot of money for a batt. the best thing you can do is go to your local motor facters,they should be able to sort you out a batt alot cheaper, try and stay away from halfords and olaces like that.

[aceraf]

i had the same problem over the past week or so, it does sound like its the battary, £75 is alot of money for a batt. the best thing you can do is go to your local motor facters,they should be able to sort you out a batt alot cheaper, try and stay away from halfords and olaces like that.

i went with my brother (who gets a discount) and that was the price after the discount ! Going to try a few other places before i part with my hard-earned cash.

did yours do the same thing...i.e not do anything when you turn the key after a few starts? Would it start again when cold?

[mrLEE30]

this seems more like connections, but charge the battery as that is free for you, leave it overnight on a trickle charge (dont be tempted to fast charge it),

then clean the grease off of your connections , and clean them with sand paper as i suggest (also free!!), then inspect the earth connection to the car body (bolt tight, no rust) and even remove this and give it a clean with sand paper, and finally check the live connection to the starter motor is tight.
do this first before you start to throw money at the problem

if you have the same problems after this then start to suspect a problem with the battery or starter solinoid.... when you say the car does not start when hot do you mean:
it turns and does not fire,
turns slow,
does not turn,
makes a click noise but does not turn
does not make any sound at all....

mrlee

[stickupkid11]

it did do the same thing. to start with it cranked over very slow.then nothing after a few days. i have a c 2.5 for spares that had a batt charged that and put it on the car,that was last week and its still fine, do you have a euro carparts close to you?

[aceraf]

this seems more like connections, but charge the battery as that is free for you, leave it overnight on a trickle charge (dont be tempted to fast charge it),

then clean the grease off of your connections , and clean them with sand paper as i suggest (also free!!), then inspect the earth connection to the car body (bolt tight, no rust) and even remove this and give it a clean with sand paper, and finally check the live connection to the starter motor is tight.

will do.

f you have the same problems after this then start to suspect a problem with the starter solinoid.... when you say the car does not start when hot do you mean:
it turns and does not fire,
turns slow,
does not turn,
makes a click noise but does not turn
does not make any sound at all....

When it doesn't start it does nothing at all. no sound or anything. However if i jump start it, then it will start!

do you have a euro carparts close to you?

closest one is in Nottingham about 10-15 miles away. Can get a quote online from them, and then go down if they're cheaper.

[stickupkid11]

they should be a lot cheaper.think the last one i got was bout £25 plus vat.

[aceraf]

they should be a lot cheaper.think the last one i got was bout £25 plus vat.

just checked...

BOSCH n/a 412770050 BOSCH BATTERY TYPE 065/075 55Ah 320/540 242Lx175Wx175H 0/1 B3
BOSCH - 065 £56.93

LION n/a 412770052 LION BATTERY TYPE 065 55Ah 255/500 247Lx175Wx175H 0/1 B13
LION - 065 £50.55

LION n/a 412770052W LION BATTERY TYPE 065 55Ah 255/500 247Lx175Wx175H 0/1 B13
LION - 065 £30.50

Appear only to be 55Amps???

[aceraf]

any more opinions on this?

[Brianmoooore]

First thing to do is invest £10 in a meter. Then you can stop guessing and start proving!
096 is the correct battery for a 325 touring, but it doesn't hurt to go for the biggest you can physically get in there. It won't damage the alternator.

[aceraf]

First thing to do is invest £10 in a meter. Then you can stop guessing and start proving!
096 is the correct battery for a 325 touring, but it doesn't hurt to go for the biggest you can physically get in there. It won't damage the alternator.

096...what is that 96amps???

I think i do need to invest in a meter

[Brianmoooore]

096...what is that 96amps???

Just the code number for that particular style of battery. Somewhere around 60 - 65A, IIRC, but most batteries only seem to be marked in cranking amps these days.

[aceraf]

096...what is that 96amps???

Just the code number for that particular style of battery. Somewhere around 60 - 65A, IIRC, but most batteries only seem to be marked in cranking amps these days.

65Amps, is that enough for the m20b25?

Is that code a bmw code? Who do i take that code to?

[Brianmoooore]

It's cranking amps that start the car. A/Hr is how many times you can start it.
096 is nothing to do with BMW. It's a battery industry code. I would imagine it's what it says in those little books in Halfords.

[aceraf]

It's cranking amps that start the car. A/Hr is how many times you can start it.
096 is nothing to do with BMW. It's a battery industry code. I would imagine it's what it says in those little books in Halfords.

Okay, that makes a bit more sense as the place that quoted me £75 claimed this car should have a 100 to run it properly, and the one for £75 was the 110, which is supposed to be the one up from that. It was the same height as the current battery, but a tiny bit longer.

Any thoughts on the hot start being an issue? I think the fact that it start with a jump start means it's not a hot start issue, but what would need checking/be at fault if this was a hot start problem?

[Brianmoooore]

What's the voltage across your battery?

[aceraf]

Okay, an update....

purchased a voltage meter reader....

battery read as follows:-

13.8 - car running with no other electricals on (tape off, and fuse removed from power-cable for amplifier/power cap)
12.6 - car off with no other electricals on.

As a result the car has been starting fine today.

I have however managed to get the immobiliser disabled/valet mode, and as such can now start the car without having to insert the fob into the immobiliser unit.

At this point it looks like the problem has been solved as i've been on a long journey, followed by a few short journey, and it's started fine every time!

Fingers crossed it is the immobiliser as i'm having that removed asap to get another alarm/immobiliser fitted. If it's not then i will update (fingers crossed i won't have to).

Thanks everyone who's posted replies...as ever the Zone is such a re-assuring place.

Thank you all

[aceraf]

Okay, the issue isn't fixed....

went out to it at 9.30pm, and it did the same thing....turn the key and nothing, no sound or anything. The immobiliser light was still lit, so it should've been disabled.

Had to go somewhere so took the 316...got back home at 9.50ish, tried starting it...and it started 1st time!

I couldn't check the voltage on the battery when it wasn't working as i can't do both things at once....will try and get someone to start it while i check voltage if it happens again.

Anymore ideas???? This is really annoying, and i need it fixed asap as the 316 will be going soon!

[aceraf]

Anyone????

[Brianmoooore]

When you said it wasn't starting in the OP, I took it that it was turning the engine over, but sluggishly.
Do you mean that the problem is absolutely nothing happens when you turn the key?

[aceraf]

When you said it wasn't starting in the OP, I took it that it was turning the engine over, but sluggishly.
Do you mean that the problem is absolutely nothing happens when you turn the key?

Yes...

when i have the problem i have ignition, but when i turn the key there's nothing!

The switch for the gear settings (S E 321) clicks (i'm guessing to make sure it's in E as when it's put in S then it will automatically flick it back into E), but i've tried disconnecting this completely, and it still does absolutely nothing!

I can try this a few times, and the same, have ignition, turn the key, nothing....then i can come back 30-60mins later, and it'll start 1st time.

I must say when it does start it's not a strong start, it sounds slow, but it doesn't turn over and over, it starts on the 1st time but just slower/quieter than normally??? If that makes sense.

[SPADGE]

If this car is an auto could this not be a problem with the inhibitor switch which stops the car starting when in anything other than P or N? Have you tried shifting from P or N and then back into one or the other when it won't start?
I doubt this would be affected by the temperature but worth a try.

[aceraf]

If this car is an auto could this not be a problem with the inhibitor switch which stops the car starting when in anything other than P or N? Have you tried shifting from P or N and then back into one or the other when it won't start?
I doubt this would be affected by the temperature but worth a try.

Yep, tried all that, put it in other gears and tried, also put it in S and 321 and still the same, when it won't start the only thing that's got it started is jump starting it.

On 2 occasions it did start when i removed the wiring to the gearbox switch (s,e,321), but that doesn't always work either.

[aceraf]

Oh, and i don't think it's temperature related anymore as when it wouldn't start at 9.30 today it would've been cool-cold.

Also if it was the inhibitor switch, then it wouldn't just start up itself about 30mins later would it???

No changes are being made to the car between when it doesn't work, and when it does. Just completely random???