Once the car has warmed up an is restarted, it starts first time with the gauge working.
iv checked the sparkies, there is definatly electric, and there is no loss of power while driving and no air leaks whatsoever
n e ideas?
Problem starting from cold
Moderator: martauto
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Dan318-is
- Married to the E30 Zone
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i have a completely random problem with my car. sometimes wen i try to start the car from cold, the engine cranks over but needs 2 or 3 times to start. i also have to constantly move the accelerator to get it start. once it starts, it also idles slightly high and the mpg gauge does not work
Once the car has warmed up an is restarted, it starts first time with the gauge working.
iv checked the sparkies, there is definatly electric, and there is no loss of power while driving and no air leaks whatsoever
n e ideas?
Once the car has warmed up an is restarted, it starts first time with the gauge working.
iv checked the sparkies, there is definatly electric, and there is no loss of power while driving and no air leaks whatsoever
n e ideas?
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kam-325i
- E30 Zone Team Member
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- Location: TELFORD !!!! (Shropshire) Stevetigger Land !!!
- Contact:
I have the same problem with my 325i, and i have no idea what it is.
Just seems to be random.
Just seems to be random.
Pete don't care about colour, He would shag a rainbow if he could find the end of it....
dan, idle speed sounds like its just the ICV. i'd ignore it unless its really bad.
hesitation to start is not so easy. you just have to be thorough and test everything. reckon lack of fuel is best guess, mb the system's taking a bit of time to pressurise. could try priming the fuel pump a bit before firing her up then see if she goes . does it 'try' to catch at all or you're just left spinning the starter? thinking about it sounds like lack of fuel if pumping the throttle/trying for longer gets it to catch. you're not pissing fuel out of the rubber hose to the injector rail are you? seen that a few times before. describe the problem some more and it'll probably make more sense. are you turning the car for ages? if you keep turning and it gets closer to firing, fuel sounds likely.
before any of that i'd probably get the intake boot off and injectors out, clean everything up, test the operation of the TPS, crank and cam position sensor resistances, and make sure the temperature sensor is ok, check the resistance of the leads too, then unplug the battery for a bit to reset ecu, drive it for a bit then get the fault codes read. how stable's the idle when its running?
reckon you just need to be systematic and test everything. lack of fuel is the most likely candidate from the little info you've given. an air leak would have to be pretty huge to stop it firing, likewise if you've got spark you've got spark and you don't need much or all 4 to get the car to turn over, even if it runs like a bag of nails.
does it completely fail to start a few times you turn the key, like not even an attempt to fire, then fire fine on another attempt? then it could be fuel pump relay or something, meaning sometimes you're not getting any fuel at all, other times all is fine. try to listen to hear whether it primes and you could try bridging the relay or something.
hope that helps, describe it some more dude!
hesitation to start is not so easy. you just have to be thorough and test everything. reckon lack of fuel is best guess, mb the system's taking a bit of time to pressurise. could try priming the fuel pump a bit before firing her up then see if she goes . does it 'try' to catch at all or you're just left spinning the starter? thinking about it sounds like lack of fuel if pumping the throttle/trying for longer gets it to catch. you're not pissing fuel out of the rubber hose to the injector rail are you? seen that a few times before. describe the problem some more and it'll probably make more sense. are you turning the car for ages? if you keep turning and it gets closer to firing, fuel sounds likely.
before any of that i'd probably get the intake boot off and injectors out, clean everything up, test the operation of the TPS, crank and cam position sensor resistances, and make sure the temperature sensor is ok, check the resistance of the leads too, then unplug the battery for a bit to reset ecu, drive it for a bit then get the fault codes read. how stable's the idle when its running?
reckon you just need to be systematic and test everything. lack of fuel is the most likely candidate from the little info you've given. an air leak would have to be pretty huge to stop it firing, likewise if you've got spark you've got spark and you don't need much or all 4 to get the car to turn over, even if it runs like a bag of nails.
does it completely fail to start a few times you turn the key, like not even an attempt to fire, then fire fine on another attempt? then it could be fuel pump relay or something, meaning sometimes you're not getting any fuel at all, other times all is fine. try to listen to hear whether it primes and you could try bridging the relay or something.
hope that helps, describe it some more dude!
2.1 318is, MS, LPG. 200bhp, 175ft/lbs GONE!
Boxster, e46 m3, e36 sport touring and alpina B3 3.0
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Dan318-is
- Married to the E30 Zone
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- Location: Surrey/London
it alwyay starts eventually tim and is always sparking, i thought it might be a fuel problem too
once its running it runs fine so i dont think its anything to do with fuel feed itself?? there are no leaks at all, this is the first thing i checked thoroughly an i cannt see fuel dripping anywhere even when the engine is warm
the problem is i cant go outside and see if it does it again cos its so fucking random! when it does happen im usually in a rush!
it alwyas tries to fire; you can hear it cranking and sparking if you get me?
nex time it happens il take more notice instead of getting angry then get back to you!
once its running it runs fine so i dont think its anything to do with fuel feed itself?? there are no leaks at all, this is the first thing i checked thoroughly an i cannt see fuel dripping anywhere even when the engine is warm
the problem is i cant go outside and see if it does it again cos its so fucking random! when it does happen im usually in a rush!
it alwyas tries to fire; you can hear it cranking and sparking if you get me?
nex time it happens il take more notice instead of getting angry then get back to you!
Hi
I have a similar problem with my 87 320i. But, this problem occurs whether it is cold or hot. The car will take almost 5 seconds to catch and the only way I can get it to catch is by pumping the accelerator. Funny thing though, every so often for no reason and with no pattern, as soon as I turn the key to start the engine starts immediately without touching anything.
Strange problem, as I seem to have more than enough fuel pressure (pulled the hose of the injector rail without de-pressuring the engine) allthough I think the problem may be with a bad injector that is flooding the engine while she is sitting for 30 minutes or longer (after it has started there is a STRONG smell of petrol from the exhaust tip) or either it is a bad fuel pressure regulator.
It also only does it after about half an hour of standing. If I turn the engine off, wait 5 minutes and try again, she starts perfectly first time without touching the accelerator.
Anyone got any ideas on it?
Thanks
BeemaBoy
I have a similar problem with my 87 320i. But, this problem occurs whether it is cold or hot. The car will take almost 5 seconds to catch and the only way I can get it to catch is by pumping the accelerator. Funny thing though, every so often for no reason and with no pattern, as soon as I turn the key to start the engine starts immediately without touching anything.
Strange problem, as I seem to have more than enough fuel pressure (pulled the hose of the injector rail without de-pressuring the engine) allthough I think the problem may be with a bad injector that is flooding the engine while she is sitting for 30 minutes or longer (after it has started there is a STRONG smell of petrol from the exhaust tip) or either it is a bad fuel pressure regulator.
It also only does it after about half an hour of standing. If I turn the engine off, wait 5 minutes and try again, she starts perfectly first time without touching the accelerator.
Anyone got any ideas on it?
Thanks
BeemaBoy
Any of you guys manage to find a cause for this???
As I seem to have the same problem still!!!!
So far I have replaced
Both temp sensors (blue and Brown) Brand new BMW parts
Idle Control valve (and cleaned it and it definitely is ok as idle is perfect)
TPS Throttle Position switch (Brand New BMW part)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Lines
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Black air intake boot (new BMW part)
New Dizzy cap and rotor arm and plugs
A lot of injector cleaner ( and some sucked in through air supply direct as recomended somewhere)
taken off the round multi plug under the TPS and thats in nice clean condition
got a small oil leak just behind the distributor which is very small!! but i think thats irrelevant
starts ok if been running recently but if left for over 2 hours is a bitch needs throttle to help into life then fine.
If left poiting nose uphill seems to help but F**k knows why?!?!?
As I seem to have the same problem still!!!!
So far I have replaced
Both temp sensors (blue and Brown) Brand new BMW parts
Idle Control valve (and cleaned it and it definitely is ok as idle is perfect)
TPS Throttle Position switch (Brand New BMW part)
Fuel Filter
Fuel Lines
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Black air intake boot (new BMW part)
New Dizzy cap and rotor arm and plugs
A lot of injector cleaner ( and some sucked in through air supply direct as recomended somewhere)
taken off the round multi plug under the TPS and thats in nice clean condition
got a small oil leak just behind the distributor which is very small!! but i think thats irrelevant
starts ok if been running recently but if left for over 2 hours is a bitch needs throttle to help into life then fine.
If left poiting nose uphill seems to help but F**k knows why?!?!?
this was happening to a friend of mine car hard to start on the key but if f you gave it accelerator to the floor it would start first time everytime it was a tad noticably easier to start when cold too.- i checked everything over and the only thing i could find was the throttle body butterfly stop had been messed about with and it was too open wide i set it to factory setting and the problem went away ( i also checked the tps was aligned correctly too)
i had a theory it could be cauing by too lean to fire but if you give it bbbeans it switches to a different fuel map therefore giving enough fuel to to even out the mixture (could be a stupid theory as i dont know motronic and there maybe all sorts of cranking enrichments and whatnoty)
short version= check tps is aligned properly and throttle butterfly isnt too wide.
i had a theory it could be cauing by too lean to fire but if you give it bbbeans it switches to a different fuel map therefore giving enough fuel to to even out the mixture (could be a stupid theory as i dont know motronic and there maybe all sorts of cranking enrichments and whatnoty)
short version= check tps is aligned properly and throttle butterfly isnt too wide.
It is an annoying problem... I have since bought a VERY expensive AFM to try and rectify the problem, and it is still there. Funny thing since I posted last is that the car is now off the road and is only driven 2 or 3 times a month. Since doing this she has started every time as soon as I turn the key. If I leave her for about 30 minutes after driving and then go down to try and start her, I get the same thing where I have to pump the accelerator to get her to start!!!
I have pretty much given up on this problem with my car. 4 seperate BMW dealers have looked into their records and said that this problem has come up many, many times before...way back when the cars were only 5 and 6 years old. There was a fudge introduced back then that involved splicing into and connecting the feed and return fuel line together with a one way T-Shaped valve...this reportedly solved the problem, but no one at BMW knows how to do it anymore.
I personally think that this is an injector problem. I think that all of the injectors are leaking into the cylinders while the car is standing due to the fact that the car only has a pressure regulator on the end of the fuel rail...which over time, as the injetors wear, causes the fuel rail to leak as it cannot withstand the pressure anymore. The reason that it seems better when cold is that the fuel is leaking past the cylinder heads and into the oil, which means that the cylinders are not flooded, and that is why it is easier to start. When hot, the fuel continues to vaporise inside the combustion chamber and I think that this causes the car not to start because it fouls the spark plugs.
Maybe try getting the injectors professionally cleaned or if you have money, buy new ones?
Whatever the problem is, many people on my side who have seen the car, recon it is fuel pressure related...
Another theory that I heard was that the non-return valve in the feed fuel line was stuck open and that the fuel was bleeding back into the fuel tank while the car was standing. The valve is built into the fuel pump, so you will have to replace the fuel pump.
Hope that helps
BB
I have pretty much given up on this problem with my car. 4 seperate BMW dealers have looked into their records and said that this problem has come up many, many times before...way back when the cars were only 5 and 6 years old. There was a fudge introduced back then that involved splicing into and connecting the feed and return fuel line together with a one way T-Shaped valve...this reportedly solved the problem, but no one at BMW knows how to do it anymore.
I personally think that this is an injector problem. I think that all of the injectors are leaking into the cylinders while the car is standing due to the fact that the car only has a pressure regulator on the end of the fuel rail...which over time, as the injetors wear, causes the fuel rail to leak as it cannot withstand the pressure anymore. The reason that it seems better when cold is that the fuel is leaking past the cylinder heads and into the oil, which means that the cylinders are not flooded, and that is why it is easier to start. When hot, the fuel continues to vaporise inside the combustion chamber and I think that this causes the car not to start because it fouls the spark plugs.
Maybe try getting the injectors professionally cleaned or if you have money, buy new ones?
Whatever the problem is, many people on my side who have seen the car, recon it is fuel pressure related...
Another theory that I heard was that the non-return valve in the feed fuel line was stuck open and that the fuel was bleeding back into the fuel tank while the car was standing. The valve is built into the fuel pump, so you will have to replace the fuel pump.
Hope that helps
BB
CHeers Liam,
When I changed the TPS i found the Throttle Butterfly was closed!! at idle so opened that to recommended setting,
however I did notice my plugs have gone whiter reecently which indicates weak mixture, so maybe need to close a bit more? however, why does it start ok when pointing uphill???
Something else I only noticed recently, when on the flat it struggles but not as bad as downhill and when it fires the swing-o-meter economy gauge waggles about like a dogs tail till the engine settles down, is this related or coincidence?
When I changed the TPS i found the Throttle Butterfly was closed!! at idle so opened that to recommended setting,
however I did notice my plugs have gone whiter reecently which indicates weak mixture, so maybe need to close a bit more? however, why does it start ok when pointing uphill???
Something else I only noticed recently, when on the flat it struggles but not as bad as downhill and when it fires the swing-o-meter economy gauge waggles about like a dogs tail till the engine settles down, is this related or coincidence?
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Martinaston
- E30 Zone Addict
- Posts: 3749
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: London
Sounds like injectors to me,
once you get the car runnuing and up to temp pull fuse 11 to kill the fuel pump then wait for the engine to die. Once its off take the key out then put fuse 11 back in and wait half hour or overnight (or however long it takes for the problem to come back).
Then when you start it and it fires first time you can be pretty sure your injectors are leaking and flooding the manifold because of the fuel pressure retained in the system when its off.
Don't waist time and money on crap like redex just get them professionaly cleaned or get new ones £400+
once you get the car runnuing and up to temp pull fuse 11 to kill the fuel pump then wait for the engine to die. Once its off take the key out then put fuse 11 back in and wait half hour or overnight (or however long it takes for the problem to come back).
Then when you start it and it fires first time you can be pretty sure your injectors are leaking and flooding the manifold because of the fuel pressure retained in the system when its off.
Don't waist time and money on crap like redex just get them professionaly cleaned or get new ones £400+
There is NO nucleus.
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Martinaston
- E30 Zone Addict
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- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: London
Ricksta
How old is your dizzy cap and arm ?
How old is your dizzy cap and arm ?
There is NO nucleus.
Thanks Beemaboy and Martinaston!! I think I will try the fuse 11 trick tonight and see if that helps,
had not heard about the fuel return problem!! that could be the case also but obviously be happy if its the injectors as thats prob easier to fix
had not heard about the fuel return problem!! that could be the case also but obviously be happy if its the injectors as thats prob easier to fix
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Martinaston
- E30 Zone Addict
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- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: London
Ricksta
If the plugs are white and you have leaking injectors someone has probably messed with the mixture screw to get it through the emmisions test for the MOT.
The injectors are probably in a poor state and when they get like that they don't spray the fuel (mist) they just squirt the fuel in like a water pistol so to stop it running rich people just open the bypass screw on the airflow meter so it runs lean.
Gets it through an MOT but does nothing for the fuel economy because its still just getting blown down the exhaust which then just rots from the inside. so in the long run it can end up getting pretty expensive
I think the idea of messing with fuel lines sounds like a bit of a bodge by BMW and all it does is relieve the back pressure in the fuel lines by dumping it back in the tank, probably worked but i bet the car didn't start untill the fuel pump had primed the system
If the plugs are white and you have leaking injectors someone has probably messed with the mixture screw to get it through the emmisions test for the MOT.
The injectors are probably in a poor state and when they get like that they don't spray the fuel (mist) they just squirt the fuel in like a water pistol so to stop it running rich people just open the bypass screw on the airflow meter so it runs lean.
Gets it through an MOT but does nothing for the fuel economy because its still just getting blown down the exhaust which then just rots from the inside. so in the long run it can end up getting pretty expensive
I think the idea of messing with fuel lines sounds like a bit of a bodge by BMW and all it does is relieve the back pressure in the fuel lines by dumping it back in the tank, probably worked but i bet the car didn't start untill the fuel pump had primed the system
There is NO nucleus.
Mine does not start so well if hot and left for 30mins it will not start without turning the engine over for around 5secs.
Changed the blue sensor and sparks (which looked nice and brown) ummm off comes the dizzy tomorrow! How hard is that to do ? Bonnet being the wrong way around make it look a pita!
Changed the blue sensor and sparks (which looked nice and brown) ummm off comes the dizzy tomorrow! How hard is that to do ? Bonnet being the wrong way around make it look a pita!
Triumph Spitfire MKIV
BMW E30 325i 4dr rightness
SUbaru Justy Gen2 AWD
BMW E30 325i 4dr rightness
SUbaru Justy Gen2 AWD
Mine went thru a similar thing periodically but has not done it for a while, while driving along, i would go to put my foot on the accellarator, after say a bit of coasting, or waiting at a junction, sometimes it would hesitate then go, or sometimes it would hesitiate then the engine would die completely, ussualy meaning you were sat at the junction with a dead car..... frantically trying to restart it and all the while looking like a muppet
hast done it for a while though so....... fingers crossed
hast done it for a while though so....... fingers crossed
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
- Posts: 49353
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
An E30 should be started without touching the throttle pedal. If it's a poor starter after being left for about 30 minutes, and starts better with the throttle open, I would suspect one or more leaking injectors.
Had a thought! (surprised) It's an auto 325i and when in drive the car does coast rather quick without any throttle.
Leaking injector running on ?
Leaking injector running on ?
Triumph Spitfire MKIV
BMW E30 325i 4dr rightness
SUbaru Justy Gen2 AWD
BMW E30 325i 4dr rightness
SUbaru Justy Gen2 AWD
Well said brian. I was just about to say thhat people dont question how their injectors are functioning.
Its recommended that they should be cleaned every 40,0000 miles. Most of our cars will have donr about 3 times this. I had mine properly cleand and ....WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
Its recommended that they should be cleaned every 40,0000 miles. Most of our cars will have donr about 3 times this. I had mine properly cleand and ....WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
