Strange starting/running problem

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Sooty
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Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:42 pm

OK fellas, this one has got me more than a little bit puzzled, so see what you make of it.
I apologise for it being a bit long winded, but the more info you have, the more likely we can come up with an answer.

There are three problems that may be related....or maybe not :mad:

Car is an 88' 320i with 151,000 on the clock.

Problem #1
Starting from cold, I have to crank the engine for 20 to 30 seconds before she slowly struggles to life.
It sounds as if she catches one one cylinder then two, three, etc but I'm having to pump the throttle as she's catching.
When warm, if I turn the engine off and restart within 5 minutes or so, she will start with no problem. Any longer than this and I'm back to the long cranking (ooer missus winkeye )

I've changed the plugs, dizzy cap & rotor arm to take care of the electrical side of things. No difference.
Thinking it may be fuel pressure related, I swapped the pressure regulator for a known good one from another engine. Again, no difference.
I've checked all the hoses for possible air/vacuum leaks and they're all sound & I've set the tappets to spec (cold).
There is a very slight blow from the exhaust manifold, but this disappears as the engine warms up.

Problem #2
When accelerating through the gears (like a normal person....not Chav style :roll: ), the rpm's 'hang up' rather than react to the throttle pedal.
e.g. in 2nd gear, accelerate up to 4000, depress clutch to go for 3rd but the rpm's will stay at 4k for 3 or 4 seconds before slowly decaying.
I've played with it, and it can take as long as 8 seconds for the rpm to drop from 4k back to idle.
This happens in all gears whilst accelerating, but not if the car is stationary and I'm just revving the engine.

Problem #3
When warm, she idles and drives, nice & smooth, just as a beemer 6 pot should.
However, if I get caught in traffic (jams or lights), after 3 or 4 minutes of sitting stationary, the rpm will start hunting between 750 & 1000.
Note that it never happens immediately; only after I've been sat for a few minutes.

Anyone any ideas..... :?

Iain S
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drax
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:41 am

Check for over fueling..

You shouldnt pump the throttle as it floods the engine with petrol. Instead hold the throttle open (fully depress the accellerator and hold) to channel maximum air into it.

Im starting to learn my way around it id say check the piping after the afm for splits and clean the icv.

But im abit of a noob still just going on what people have told me and stuff ive picked up
Globulator
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:47 am

Hmmm - sounds like under-fueling to me!!
Check the fuel pump(s) are working properly (fuel pressure guage or just check they are buzzing away properly!
Also check vacuum pipe to pressure regular is connected to plenum properly!
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E30Mark
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:00 pm

i'd check the wiring to the injectors... there is a multiway connector beneath the intake manifold which breaks down with age...
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:40 pm

1. It's pretty darned difficult to flood an injected engine, especially by pumping the throttle!
2. If it doesn't fire within say 5 seconds, let go of the key and try again as the cranking enrichment will have decayed away after somewhere around that time making it more and more difficult to start.
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Sooty
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:40 pm

Thanks for the response guys :thumb:
Check for over fueling..
There's no strong smell of fuel to indicate overfueling so I think I can safely rule that one out.
check the piping after the afm for splits and clean the icv.
Already done that.
Check the fuel pump(s) are working properly (fuel pressure guage or just check they are buzzing away properly!
Pumps working fine.
Also check vacuum pipe to pressure regular is connected to plenum properly
Checked & changed that when I changed the regulator.
wiring to the injectors
Checked that one as well, but problems with that plug tend to produce randomly occuring, fluctuating rpm higher up the rev range rather than the regular things I'm experiencing (I've had that one before on another car, so I know what to look for).
If it doesn't fire within say 5 seconds, let go of the key and try again as the cranking enrichment will have decayed away after somewhere around that time making it more and more difficult to start.
I'll give this a try later, when the engine's cold.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that all 3 problems are inter-related.
Might try pulling the injectors at the w/end and getting them ultrasonically cleaned, see if that helps.

Iain S
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:20 pm

Maybe you should check the Idle control valve. If injection system is Jetronic it should be located on the right side of the intake manifold, and with Motronic on the left side near butterfly. It happen sometimes that the valve gets stucked open and then U get under-fueling, waving idle and slow RPM falldown because of air bypassing the butterfly. I had similar problem on my 320 and 325. Flushing the valve with carburator cleaner (usually gasoline is not strong enough) might solve the problem. Just remove the valve and pour cleaner into it and shake it a little bit. U can try to move the rotor inside the valve and it should move with no resistance.
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Sooty
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:33 pm

Thanks for the input tekila :thumb: , but I've already had a go at the ICV and it's as clean as it's possible to get it.
I've got a couple of other things to look at first, but then I'll start changing things like the ICV.

Iain S
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:41 pm

I think your on the right track with the injectors by the sound of it, sounds like there sticking open or closed.
Pull the fuel rail and with the pump running see if they leak while there closed and then see what the spray pattern is like while you crank the engine. The fuel should be a cone shape as it squirts out to atomise it, if its sqirting out in a straight jet then it will have trouble igniting which could explain the poor cold starts (and will eventualy rot the exhaust from the inside).
Cleaning them doesn't always cure it and there far from cheap for a new set, you could always just try a bottle of redex in the tank if your willing to put up with it a bit longer.
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Sooty
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Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:04 pm

Quote:
If it doesn't fire within say 5 seconds, let go of the key and try again as the cranking enrichment will have decayed away after somewhere around that time making it more and more difficult to start.

I'll give this a try later, when the engine's cold.
Nope.....did'nt work :(
I think your on the right track with the injectors by the sound of it, sounds like there sticking open or closed.
Hi m8.
Nice to know that someone's thinking along the same lines as me.
I've had previous experience with injectors, and I've got the kit at work to clean them and carry out pressure, leak-off & pattern tests.
I'm sure I've got a spare set hidden away in the shed somewhere, so I'll dig them out & see what they're like before pulling the ones on the car.

I'll try and keep you posted.

Iain S
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