Fuel pump replacement

Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:08 pm

Hi does anyone have a number for the fuel pump in the tank? And somewhere to purchase from please?
I think my pump is broken after investigating into why the car will not start.... I definitely don't have fuel to the engine and I can't hear the pump in the tank working... I am going to finish the testing tomorrow but just want to be prepared if it is indeed the pump!!!
Many thanks merry Xmas!!!
Bloody freezing outside fault finding this today.....

Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:07 pm

pleanty on the bay of e
322417222677. ebay number for bosch fuel pump
know what you mean buy freezing been out for a couple of hours heading back out as soon as i de thaw
once more into the breach

Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:28 pm

HRH-squidlips_III wrote:pleanty on the bay of e
322417222677. ebay number for bosch fuel pump

Unfortunately, that won't fit most E30s.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:17 am

Yes eBay seems to be just generic fuel pumps none seem to be model specific.... euro car parts don't stock .... gsf list one for £187!!!! ....... don't really want second hand as knowing my luck it will probably fail next week!!!!
Am going to try the dealer today as hopefully a friend of mine can get discount??

Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:03 am

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2551945897
Does anyone have an opinion on this item? Or experience with walbro fuel pumps? Read on an Australian forum someone had used one of these on an e30!!

Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:32 am

there,s a good vid on utube some guy swapping one out , re-soldiering another diff make in.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:16 pm

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 1487817679
Hello me again!!!! Found this on eBay looks good...i can't see any reason why it won't work? Unless there's something obvious!!!
Any opinions welcome.... help me I'm getting wound up not being able to find a pump for sensible money!!!!! Stealers wanted £480!!!!!!

Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:09 pm

That will fit the larger 63 litre tank (the one with a level sender each side). It will not fit the 55 litre tank with the small S shaped pipe linking the bottom of the two halves.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:27 pm

Thanks Brian how can you tell out of interest

Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:49 pm

I'd love to know how you find this!

I have a cheapy eBay one fitted (about £30, claimed to be compatible) and it sits a cm or two higher than the original, and I suffer from horrific fuel starvation around right handers (even in town - not just fast driving) if I've got under 1/2 a tank. This could be a nice, cheap solution if it's deep enough!

Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:46 pm

jcm325 wrote:Thanks Brian how can you tell out of interest

'Cause it only has one pipe coming out of it. The pump assembly for the 55 litre tank has another pipe on the top for the fuel returning from the engine.
I'm making no comments on the quality and potential life of it, and what triggerfish says is correct. The pick up for the pump must sit well within the cup at the bottom of the tank.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:08 am

Ok thanks for the replies.... what do we think is the best option here ? Try a cheapy and hope for the best? Try a 2nd hand genuine one and hope it lasts? Or bend over and pay full price for a new one?
The cars a keeper but I don't drive it very often struggling to justify spending massive money on such a basic item!!! Of all the things I've bought for this car this is proving to be the most problematic..

Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:56 pm

this is what I would do
cheers. if you wanna save some money. I,m not sure about his engineering skills or happy language, but you get the idea.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:56 pm

Ok seems I may have jumped the gun.... did some more testing today and as per the wiki if I remove the fuel pump relay and bridge the 2 pins the pump runs constantly and sounds good...
So following the wiki I'm now at the dme relay testing stage but it looks like both relays are good according to the results I'm getting so it's looking like the fault is elsewhere possibly the ecu if I'm following the wiki correctly!!!! Wish it was the fuel pump now!!!!

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:06 am

When did you last change the fuel filter?

Just a thought

Paul

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:42 pm

Did the fuel filter about 6 months ago but have a definite issue with the pump not running when I turn the key..... but it does run if I bridge the pins....
I'm going to start again with the wiki and make sure I've tested everything correctly!!!!

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:22 pm

its not suppose to run when you turn the key. only when cranking engine.
sounds like a wiring issue,or relay or bad earth somewhere. get hold of wiring diagram for your can and trace it through. these faults can be frustrating and hard to find. took me ages to find a electrical fault i had on an old Saab once.
does the car run if you power the pump directly from a 12 v supply.

Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:17 pm

jcm325 wrote:Did the fuel filter about 6 months ago but have a definite issue with the pump not running when I turn the key..... but it does run if I bridge the pins....

Turn the key to where?

Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:46 pm

I was under the impression that when you first turn on the ignition the fuel pump should operate for a couple of seconds to prime the system? Then obviously supply fuel as you turn the key to the crank position? My pump does not operate in any key position including cranking.... yet with the fuel pump relay removed and the pins bridged it runs constantly....with the dme relay removed and the the 3pins bridged it will still not start!
Hope I've made things clear? I'm only following the troubleshooting guide in the wiki and don't really know any more than what its telling me!!!

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:35 pm

jcm325 wrote:I was under the impression that when you first turn on the ignition the fuel pump should operate for a couple of seconds to prime the system?

Non on an E30.

Then obviously supply fuel as you turn the key to the crank position?

More accurately "supply fuel as the engine cranks" The pump should only run when the engine actually turns, not just because the key is in the start position.

with the fuel pump relay removed and the pins bridged it runs constantly

This is as it should be

....with the dme relay removed and the the 3pins bridged it will still not start!

This is NOT as it should be.

The next thing to check is if you get sparks at a a spark plug when the engine is cranked.
The whole fuel pump thing appears to be a red herring.

Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:36 am

Thanks for your help Brian I appreciate it's difficult diagnosing problems via the internet!!!! I have basically followed the troubleshooting guide in the wiki....
I have checked coil and I definitely have spark at the plugs whilst cranking...... checked cps..... which is why I ended up at fuel... definitely no fuel to engine during cranking which is why I suspected the pump because I couldn't hear it even during cranking....obviously I now know the pump works as it runs when the pins are bridged.....then I came to the dme relay and thought it would start using the bridge on the 3 pins but it still does not start....not sure where to go from here??
Many thanks for any help

Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:07 am

not that i know didley about cars but i thought if you have spark plus fuel only thing wrong could be the timing that or blocked fuel filter/lines

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:48 am

If the fuel pump doe not run when cranking, but you have sparks, there are very limited things that can be wrong.
One of these is the DME relay not supplying power to the coil of the pump relay, but this has been eliminated by replacing the former by wire links.
Another possibility is fuse 11 blown or an immobiliser in the line to the fuel pump, but both these possibilities have been eliminated by the fact that the pump runs when the pump relay is bridged out, and you say that the engine still doesn't start with the DME and pump relays bridged.
Doesn't leave much other than the ECU itself, or a simple wiring fault on the single wire from the ECU to the pump relay's coil, both of which are very unlikely.

Are you absolutely sure that the pump does or does not run when the engine is being cranked? The voltage available to the pump is considerably reduced while cranking, and a pump that runs on full battery voltage may not run under those conditions.

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:03 pm

link together pins 30 and 87 with a short length of wire. You should easily hear the fuel pump whirring away under the rear seat of your E30.

If you can, then you should ensure that power is reaching pins 85 and 86 of the fuel pump relay socket, by using a 12V 5W bulb. If power is present, then expect your fuel pump relay to be faulty, but if it's not then you need to find out why. Test for power on pin 87 of the DMErelay.

The above copied from the wiki..... I have redone the testing today and I only have power to one of the pins not both? If I read correctly if I had power at both pins the pump relay would be at fault????
What does power at only one pin mean and where should I go next?

Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:55 pm

jcm325 wrote:link together pins 30 and 87 with a short length of wire. You should easily hear the fuel pump whirring away under the rear seat of your E30.

This sentence was lifted from one of my posts. It's a sentence I've typed many times on here.

If you can, then you should ensure that power is reaching pins 85 and 86 of the fuel pump relay socket, by using a 12V 5W bulb. If power is present, then expect your fuel pump relay to be faulty, but if it's not then you need to find out why.

This isn't one of mine, and isn't entirely clear on the test conditions. You should find 12 volts on both pins 85 and 86 of the pump relay with the ignition on, the engine not started, and the relay still in place. If the relay is removed, you will only find power on one of the two pins.
If the ignition is off, there shouldn't be power on either pin, and with the engine running or cranking, there should be 12 volts on one pin and close to zero on the other.

What does power at only one pin mean ?

With the relay in place and ignition on, this would mean either a relay with an open circuit coil (unlikely), or a relay that is 'on' and supplying power to the fuel pump, which it shouldn't be if the engine's crankshaft isn't rotating.

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:58 pm

Yes parts of the wiki are a bit vague and possibly assume more knowledge than I have!!!!
When I did the tests I had the relay removed and ignition on ..... I.m not sure how to test this with the relay in place? I am hoping to carry out some more tests in the morning as when I bridged the 3 pins in the dme relay I had the fuel pump relay fitted....am I right in thinking that I should have both relays removed and the 2pins in the fuel pump relay bridged plus the 3pins in the dme relay bridged all at the same time to perform the test correctly?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:39 pm

sounds complicated. what is the resting voltage of your battery ?
is it possible your battery not good enough to crank the engine and supply enough voltage to run the pump.
could it do any harm to use a slave battery connected direct to the fuel pump, whilst cranking the engine. ?
just as a test .

Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:17 pm

Battery is good and charged showing 12.8v in the cold....
I'm going to go back to the start I think as I may be going down the wrong path!!!! For info the history of this fault....
Car not started for approx 5 weeks
Car started no problem left ticking over for approx 10 mins
Car moved up the drive still running perfect and left running for 5mins
I returned to the car and found it struggling to run it then cut out.
Car has not started since.

Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:29 pm

i,m thinking fuel pressure , maybe too low to pass injectors. do a fuel pressure test. check out threads on here in particular Brian's one. could also be the wiring to the fuel injectors. apparently there is a connector under the inlet manifold that can corrode and stop power getting to F/I's.

try removing the rubber boot to throttle body , give a good spray of carb-cleaner and re-assemble , try. if car runs for a short while then cuts out you know you got fuel starvation issue.

Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:58 pm

arrisbmw wrote: could it do any harm to use a slave battery connected direct to the fuel pump, whilst cranking the engine. ?
just as a test .

This is a good test to try. Include a meter in series with the supply to monitor the current been taken as well, if you have one.
Should take around 2A or so. Watch for any spikes or drop outs.

arrisbmw wrote: try removing the rubber boot to throttle body , give a good spray of carb-cleaner and re-assemble , try. if car runs for a short while then cuts out you know you got fuel starvation issue.

This is also worth trying, but disconnect the hose at the AFM end, and fill the hose, since with the throttle closed some of the mixture passes through the idle control valve, which takes its feed from the big hose. No need to reconnect the hose to the AFM before trying the engine. AFM is closed at idle, so will still give the correct signal without any flow through it.

arrisbmw wrote: apparently there is a connector under the inlet manifold that can corrode and stop power getting to F/I's.

There is indeed, but it won't stop the fuel pump running, which is what the problem is reported to be, so I wouldn't get involved with this just yet. It's also not the connector itself that causes serious problems - it's the last couple of inches of wiring to the lower half of the connector that corrodes internally.

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:38 am

Thanks guys I'll try and do these suggestions asap
Today I changed the fuel filter just because it's cheap and easy whilst it was disconnected I cranked the engine and got fuel into a container, short crank = about 30ml of fuel?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:25 am

o.k its good to know more information about these beauties.

it's the last couple of inches of wiring to the lower half of the connector that corrodes internally. B posted
is that the wire that is actually connected to the fuel feed rail with the 3 pin socket on it ?

thanks . happy xmas

Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:42 pm

She's Alive!!!!!!
Right today I decided to keep it simple and go for the basics....
After changing the fuel filter yesterday I knew I was getting fuel whilst cranking but still no fuel to engine? The only thing between where I was getting fuel and the engine was the filter and about 6 ft of pipe!!!
So I disconnected the fuel line in the engine and cranked but no fuel so I bridged the pins in the fuel pump relay and air hissed out for about 30seconds and then fuel at max flow....pipe reconnected and fuel pump relay refitted and bingo it started!!!
I think the fuel filter that I fitted 6 months ago was shit and blocked and all the subsequent fault finding caused an airlock in the fuel line which is why it still wouldn't start after I changed the fuel filter!!
Many thanks to all who contributed to this thread....
Merry Christmas ...... so glad to get this running again

Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Well .... if it's running, all well and good, but an airlock in a fuel line is impossible!

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:17 pm

That's what I thought but the car just would not start it felt like it wanted to go but just wouldn't..... also cranking with a fuel pipe disconnected produced no fuel to engine..... like I said I bridged the pins and left the fuel line disconnected and an audible rush of air came out followed by fuel....im surprised the previous filter was blocked as it had only been in 6 months but it was a euro car parts cheapy !!!! Yes it was fitted the right way round!!!!!!