e30 325 not starting. can anyone help?
Moderator: martauto
Bought an e30 that needed a bit welding. Took the battery out all together prior to starting. Weldings done and car is almost ready for mot. Tried to start it up yesterday and i cant hear the fuel pump kicking in and there seems to be no spark car cranks over fine tho. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what the issue could be?
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
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- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Connect a 12 volt bulb between the + terminal of the coil and the earthing point on the RH suspension turret top, and check that the bulb lights when you turn the ignition on and when you crank the engine.
Remove the plastic cover over two (or three) relays on the LH inner wing, near the air filter assembly, turn on the ignition and see whether the white 5 pin relay clicks as you pull it out of and back into its socket.
What age is the car?
You've posted this in a forum which is more for the technical difficulties and modifications involved in engine swaps, rather than run of the mill engine problems, so I'll move it to a more appropriate forum for you.
Remove the plastic cover over two (or three) relays on the LH inner wing, near the air filter assembly, turn on the ignition and see whether the white 5 pin relay clicks as you pull it out of and back into its socket.
What age is the car?
You've posted this in a forum which is more for the technical difficulties and modifications involved in engine swaps, rather than run of the mill engine problems, so I'll move it to a more appropriate forum for you.
Thanks man il get onto that the now. I was gonna post it in another section but i dont know the code of the engine its the first bmw ive had and im not quite up speed with it all yet haha. Its an 89 325i se. 2door if that makes any difference?
Checked the coil and its getting power to it. Its pretty faint but its lighting my tester. Looked at the relays theres 3 of them, one nearest the front of the car is white whitch clicks when plugged and un plugged and theres something buzzing in the engine when its plugged in. The other 2 relays are yellow and nothing seems to be happening with them
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
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- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Your tester doesn't give as definitive an answer as a 12 volt bulb, but if it lights at all, then the power to the coil is probably OK. White relay clicking also confirms this, and the other noise is the idle control valve, also confirming that the ECU is powering up.
Interesting that you have two other relays under the cover. One is the fuel pump relay, which all E30s have, but the other is for the heater of a lambda sensor, which shouldn't be there on most UK E30s of the age of yours. Is your's not UK spec., and does it have a lambda sensor and cat. converter, etc?
Next tests: One of the other relays has a green/purple wire going to it, amongst the others. This is the fuel pump relay.
Pull it out, carefully identify pins 30 and 87 of its socket (marked on the relay), and use a short piece of wire to link these two together, with the ignition off. You should easily be able to hear the fuel pump running at the rear of the car, and hear noises from the top of the engine, from fuel being forced through the fuel pressure regulator.
Second test: Pull off a spark plug lead from any plug, connect it to a spare plug and lay the plug on top of the rocker cover, or push the wire from the previous test into the connector at the top of the plug shroud and position the other end of the wire within a couple of mm from any metal surface on the car. Turn the ignition on and crank the engine. You should see a healthy blue spark every second turn of the crankshaft.
Interesting that you have two other relays under the cover. One is the fuel pump relay, which all E30s have, but the other is for the heater of a lambda sensor, which shouldn't be there on most UK E30s of the age of yours. Is your's not UK spec., and does it have a lambda sensor and cat. converter, etc?
Next tests: One of the other relays has a green/purple wire going to it, amongst the others. This is the fuel pump relay.
Pull it out, carefully identify pins 30 and 87 of its socket (marked on the relay), and use a short piece of wire to link these two together, with the ignition off. You should easily be able to hear the fuel pump running at the rear of the car, and hear noises from the top of the engine, from fuel being forced through the fuel pressure regulator.
Second test: Pull off a spark plug lead from any plug, connect it to a spare plug and lay the plug on top of the rocker cover, or push the wire from the previous test into the connector at the top of the plug shroud and position the other end of the wire within a couple of mm from any metal surface on the car. Turn the ignition on and crank the engine. You should see a healthy blue spark every second turn of the crankshaft.
As far as i know its all uk spec? Its got abs? Tried the wire over the Relay and the pump kicked in. Checked the spark and its sparking. I had a plug out and it fired for a second when i checked the spark. Cars still not actually running tho. Do i need that or they relays?
The third relay could be the OEM bodge to fix the cold starting on the early ECUs.Brianmoooore wrote: Interesting that you have two other relays under the cover. One is the fuel pump relay, which all E30s have, but the other is for the heater of a lambda sensor, which shouldn't be there on most UK E30s of the age of yours.
My 88 325i had this.
Ben
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
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- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Mounting point for the cold start bodge relay, when fitted, was on the outside of the fusebox. If it was mounted under the cover, they would have had to remove the lambda heater relay base to make room for it.
If you're certain that you now have no spark when cranking, pull off the fuel supply pipe to the fuel rail, place the end in a pot, and check whether the fuel pump runs when you crank the engine.
Distributor can be eliminated from the equation by 'borrowing' a spark plug lead, and plugging it directly into the coil. This should give three sparks per turn of the crank.
If you're certain that you now have no spark when cranking, pull off the fuel supply pipe to the fuel rail, place the end in a pot, and check whether the fuel pump runs when you crank the engine.
Distributor can be eliminated from the equation by 'borrowing' a spark plug lead, and plugging it directly into the coil. This should give three sparks per turn of the crank.
I had the fuel pump working of the wire thing you said. Took off a black breather thing on the rail and there was pressure in the rail had another one of they black things so put that on. Tried that borrowing a plug lead haha. No spark straight from the coil. Got another coil there so put that on and its no different. Starting to think my bm is gonna end up a dead car in the corner :/
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
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- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Fuel pump wouldn't run linking 30 and 87, if the 50A fuse was blown. Pin 30 is fed from this fuse,
I'm afraid I have no idea what this means "Took off a black breather thing on the rail and there was pressure in the rail had another one of they black things so put that on," but I need to know if the fuel pump runs when you crank the engine with the ignition on, not just when it's "hot wired".
I'm afraid I have no idea what this means "Took off a black breather thing on the rail and there was pressure in the rail had another one of they black things so put that on," but I need to know if the fuel pump runs when you crank the engine with the ignition on, not just when it's "hot wired".
I think its the fuel return, its got a breather going from it to the inlet manifold. The pump only seems to work when it lived up with the wire instead of the relay. Had a different pump in it just cause there was one there, got a mate stripping an e30 325 but theres already a few bits gone. Someone else suggested trying a different ecu to me last night. Everyone ive spoke to about it seems to be a bit puzzled about it
Right well tried changing that bit nothing. Checked the fuel going to the rail nothing coming through when the car is turning over or when the ignitions on. I've not checked it with the wire in the realy plug tho. There's no spark either. Power going to the coil, tried it with a plug lead straight to the coil and nothing tried different leads in case it was a faulty one. Also had a different coil on it. I've had a different fuel pump on it and I've tried a different ecu in the car. Nothing seems to do anything, anything else I can try?
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Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member
- Posts: 49358
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
DO NOT CHANGE RANDOM PARTS. It just introduces the possibility of multiple faults.
Disconnect the plug of the crank position sensor under the diagnostics socket, and measure the resistance across all three combinations of its three pins.
Two of the combinations should just read open circuit, but across the third pair you should get a resistance of 540 ohms. Also do a visual check of the cable to the sensor, especially where it passes behind the water pump pulley, and close to the sensor itself.
Disconnect the plug of the crank position sensor under the diagnostics socket, and measure the resistance across all three combinations of its three pins.
Two of the combinations should just read open circuit, but across the third pair you should get a resistance of 540 ohms. Also do a visual check of the cable to the sensor, especially where it passes behind the water pump pulley, and close to the sensor itself.
The fuel pressure regulator was changed because the return pipe was dry but the rail was pressurised, so thought that may have been faulty.
Had a look at the plug on the crank position sensor and it all looked fine. Tried to get a multimeter to check the resistance buy there was none on the snap on van at the time. Had another check over everything and noticed the pump had stopped running with the relay bridged over. Thinking back to what I'd read on this I remembered about the fuse in the boot that was mentioned so I checked that and it was blown. I bridged it over and the car starts and drives now so thanks for all the help with it guys really appreciate it
Im still unsure about what was up with it before cause the pump was running when it was bridged but it wasn't starting apart from when it kicked in for a couple seconds on 5 cylinders when we were checking the spark. Since I first posted on this its got a new coil new pump and new relays that I've not changed back. Only changed the ecu back and they both seem to be fine
Had a look at the plug on the crank position sensor and it all looked fine. Tried to get a multimeter to check the resistance buy there was none on the snap on van at the time. Had another check over everything and noticed the pump had stopped running with the relay bridged over. Thinking back to what I'd read on this I remembered about the fuse in the boot that was mentioned so I checked that and it was blown. I bridged it over and the car starts and drives now so thanks for all the help with it guys really appreciate it
Im still unsure about what was up with it before cause the pump was running when it was bridged but it wasn't starting apart from when it kicked in for a couple seconds on 5 cylinders when we were checking the spark. Since I first posted on this its got a new coil new pump and new relays that I've not changed back. Only changed the ecu back and they both seem to be fine