318i M10B18 Auto - no response from starter

[Jona1971]

Hi,

I've been having intermittent starter motor issues, varying from grinding noises for a short period after the engine has started, a click and no turning over, no click and no cranking, and slow cranking.

New things I have done recently: I have just changed the oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, my distributor cap, rotor, HT leads and spark plugs.

I am now confident they are all fitted correctly. Although I initially fiited the distributor cap the wrong way round by 180 degrees but had the HT leads in the correct place, if you see what I mean.

I've got a horrible feeling my engine may be frozen. My starter motor is now not cranking at all. I have had the battery on charge all night and also tried it connected in parallel to my Volvo's car battery and still no movement.

I have now removed the spark plugs and intend to rotate the engine with a socket on the crank pulley as per the WIKI. What size socket do I need?

Have you any suggestions as to other things I could try?

Many thanks in advance, deeply concerned I've done something daft in my enthusiasm to gets this car running perfectly.

[Grrrmachine]

These things are usually caused by electrical niggles rather than serious mechnical failure. Try cranking the engine from the Diagnostic Plug to start with:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... Plug_Start

[B7]

Starter motor would be my obvious first look.

If it is I have good ones in stock.

[Speedtouch]

An alternative method to turning the engine over is to stick it in a high gear (4th, say) and roll the car back and forward, while you observe to see if the engine turns over.

[Jona1971]

Hi,
I've just tried cranking the engine from the Diagnostic plug and I'm just getting a click from the starter motor, its not craniking at all.
I'm just off to clean up my battery terminals while I wait for a next step.
Much appreciated,

[Speedtouch]

Check the engine-to-body earth strap is secure and that the terminals are clean.

Also check the wiring to the starter motor.

[DaveMcleod88]

Hi,
I've just tried cranking the engine from the Diagnostic plug and I'm just getting a click from the starter motor, its not craniking at all.
I'm just off to clean up my battery terminals while I wait for a next step.
Much appreciated,

did u hit the starter motor with the wire in the diagnostic plug? I need to do that every now and then as my starter is on its way it, ignition on wire in diagnostic and hit the starter motor as soon as it starts pull the wire out the port

[Jona1971]

OK,
I removed the engine earth strap cleaned it in petrol and scrubbed its terminals with a wire brush. Also, cleaned up the bolts and connecting faces.

Then, I placed a jumper wire between the small terminal of the starter solenoid and the positive battery terminal - just a click noise.

Any other checks i can do?
Thanks,
Jona.

[Jona1971]

Thanks DaveMcloed88 for your reply.
Sorry, I don't understand.

Which wire in diagnostic and then connect to which part of starter motor?
Thanks, I'll then give it a try...

[Speedtouch]

Then, I placed a jumper wire between the small terminal of the starter solenoid and the positive battery terminal - just a click noise.

Any other checks i can do?
Thanks,
Jona.

Was the main power feed cable to starter motor connected when you did this? If not, all you will get is a click as the solenoid energises.

Use a multimeter or 12V test lamp to ensure you're getting power to the main feed of the starter motor.

[Jona1971]

Right:
1. ignition on
2. wire connecting pins of diagnostic plug
3. smack starter (gently, repeatedly in different areas of the starter) with a hammer.

Tried that, no movement.

I really want to check the engine can rotate freely. Does anyone know the size of socket for the crank pully? I need to get one this afternoon before they shut.

If it rotates OK is there anything else I can try before removing the starter motor from the car?

Many thanks all,
Jona.

[maxfield]

I think it's a 22mm socket.

I'm sure it's only a 10min job to whip the starter off and bench test it.

[Speedtouch]

Try sticking the car in 2nd gear and rocking it back and forth - this will free off the starter motor if it is stuck.

[DaveMcleod88]

Right:
1. ignition on
2. wire connecting pins of diagnostic plug
3. smack starter (gently, repeatedly in different areas of the starter) with a hammer.

Tried that, no movement.

I really want to check the engine can rotate freely. Does anyone know the size of socket for the crank pully? I need to get one this afternoon before they shut.

If it rotates OK is there anything else I can try before removing the starter motor from the car?

Many thanks all,
Jona.

on my car its pins number 11 and 14 to bridge

my port is the bottom one of this page

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... ostic_Plug

I don't give mine a gentle hit i properly skud it with the end of a power bar

[Jona1971]

Thanks DaveMcloed88: Twatted it with a length of bronze and it now spins like a champion - hysterical.

Have been pooing myself all day. Now at least i've got a new tool for my boot.

(Thanks Speedtouch - yes had 12v at the starter. It just rolled forward in second - its an Auto)

Fun these old cars, quite enjoyed it really. Massively relieved engine not seized, starter ok-ish.

Next job is it won't fire up. I'll do some checks and report back.

Thanks all muchly

[Jona1971]

Right, it starts and runs great. Smooth as silk (I did have the HT leads on the wrong way; my No.1 lead is nearest the bulkhead not the radiator).

But, I've left it for an afternoon, it's raining and now sometimes the starter is slow, then gets going. Sometimes doesn't want to go. Battery says 12.65V.

I've put the battery on charge again, its only 3 months old (the previous owner tells me).

Any checks I can do?

I'm thinking I should take off the starters' wiring and clean up the connections...

[Speedtouch]

Are you sure the alternator is charging the battery? With the engine running, you should see around 14V across the battery.

If it's less, either the battery is dud or the alternator is not charging it - check the belt tension.

[Jona1971]

Thanks Speedtouch -

1. I hit the starter again with the brass rod (as it was just clicking) having recharged the battery - 12.79 Volts.
2. under cranking read 11.22 Volts.
3. took reading of battery when running and 12.5 Volts.
4. revved the engine a little then let it idle, now reading 13.83 Volts.

Tension of alternator belt feels ok to me. How much play should there be?

Thanks,

[maxfield]

13.8v is fine.

Try it again, engine running with lights, fans etc on then get a reading.

13.8-14.4v is roughly about right alternator wise.

That clicking will get worse and you will need a starter motor.

[Speedtouch]

Tension of alternator belt feels ok to me. How much play should there be?

Thanks,

Normally around 1/4-1/2" when pressed firmly in the centre of the longest section between pulleys.

Alternators do sometimes need to be revved slightly above idle speed before they start to charge.

[Jona1971]

Today I removed the wires at the back of the starter solenoid to see if they were dirty and I had a bad connection, but no they are clean. I've ordered a new starter motor.

In preparation for replacement, I've just spent the last 3 hours trying to undo the 2 securing nuts/bolts top and bottom of the starter without success.

I've removed the airbox, AFM and intake boot to gain better access and have the car on axel stands. Its an Auto and access is poor.

Any ideas for top and bottom bolt removal much appreciated.

[Grrrmachine]

Are you removing them with the proper torx bits, or are they hex-headed?

[Jona1971]

They are hex headed, 17mm.

[Jona1971]

like this on Realoem:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=12&fg=25

[Speedtouch]

Use several short (2" or so) multi-angle 'wobble' socket extension bars; this will enable you to reach in from underneath, and contort them to reach the bolts.

http://www.kozy-homes.co.uk/products/13 ... -4-3-8-1-2

[Speedtouch]

Wouldn't you also need to disconnect the propshaft to do this?

[Jona1971]

Thanks Speedtouch: they didn't have wobble extensions but I bought a set of regular extensions and a universal joint. There was enough give in each section to get a decent bend.

8mm allen socket took the "fillister" bolt off. Never heard of one of those before - just a bolt that an allen key fits into.

Then the 2 starter motor nuts and bolts were a real pig to remove. I eventually managed it by cutting some cable ties around the wiring loom at the top of the bulkhead so they had a bit of give. Then I undid some jubilee clips on a couple of water hoses and moved them out of the way. I could then squeeze a ratchet with a 17mm socket between the bulkhead and the intake manifold and couple to the back of the starter motor bolts. A length of pipe on the end of my ratchet gave me enough leverage to crack the nut and bolt.

At least 5 hours so far, and I reckon I could do it again in about 45mins knowing what I know now. Also, having the right tools in the first pace...

New starter motor arrives tomorrow. So, I'm assuming thats a 5 minute job to pop back on and away we go. We'll see.

[Speedtouch]

Glad to hear you got it off in the end. I remember the struggles I had with a Fiat twin-cam one.

[Jona1971]

My new starter motor arrived today and 3 hours later, it's on.

On my car, the nut to the top bolt is obscured by some fixed metal pipework and access is zero. I overcame this problem (eventually) by supergluing the nut and washer to the starter motor. With the starter motor relocated the bottom nut and bolt went straight in along with the "fillister" bolt, then I gently screwed the top bolt in by hand until it got purchase with the nut the used the ratchet to tighten.

If anyone wants me to do this job for them my fee is a grand.

Seriously though, it works and I'm driving again. Job's a good'un.
Thank you all for your support.

[Speedtouch]

Good to hear that, dude.