E36 diff flanges vs E30 flanges

[Driftben]

would the length of the E36 diff output flanges be a big problem being about 8mm shorter on a E30 188 LSD?

[maxfield]

Demlotcrew has recently done this, sure it's in his thread in the Motorsport section.

[Demlotcrew]

I have indeed, but my E36 flanges were nothing like those, certainly they were both the same height to the end of the splines.

[Driftben]

Hmmm your right they don't look nothing like them, I have I dilemma. I was running a e36 ti rear diff until iv changed for a e30 rear LSD diff. Now where I thought they were very similar and would be a straight swap.... It wasn't. I have been running e36 rear drive shafts which are now too long by half a inch. I wanted to keep the e36 shafts because they were stronger. What to do.......

[Demlotcrew]

Doesn't the E36 ti use a small case differential?

[Driftben]

It does, I used the whole setup when I swaped the rear end for the 5stud hubs and the beefy drive shafts.
Thing is I thought the width of the small case was similar to the med case.

Live and learn.

The only thing is now I will have to give up the e36 drive shafts and go back to the e30 units

[Demlotcrew]

Not always, I was working on this turd over the weekend and it had shortened shafts, I have a feeling they just cut the end of the shaft where splines end inside the CV.



You can see right away the grease shield is missing off the end, and the non OE metal boot clamps.

[Driftben]

That actually a semi good idea, would you recon that would weaken the cv joint at all?
Also on a side note what e36 output shafts did you use in the end? I need to find some longer splined units.

[Demlotcrew]

Im not quite sure what you mean? I only changed the final drive output flanges to the E36 188 ones as they are lighter, leaving the E30 half shafts on as they are more than adequate for a measly S14.

[Driftben]

Ahh sorry I mean the e36 flanges, I didn't think the e36 had 188 diffs? Thought they just had either the small case for the Ti range and large case for the rest of the range?

Reason being with the larger half shafts is that I want to twin turbo the M60! Soon.

[Demlotcrew]

The E36 had all the sizes all the way to the 3.2 Evo which had the largest.

I think you might do well to source down a complete Z3M rear axle, that will be stronger than the E30/ti shafts as it ran 5 series flanges from factory.

Your other option is custom GNK's.

There must be a solution out there, I'll be honest I've not looked as its all weight for a torque-less power plant.

[Motorhole]

would the length of the E36 diff output flanges be a big problem being about 8mm shorter on a E30 188 LSD?

I wonder if the output shaft oil seal will sit in the right place for those? Isnt that wha the recess is for?

[Demlotcrew]

The recess is for an inner lock ring that 'soft' locks the flange in the inner case.

The highly polished band just above the metal dust shield is from the seal, try and polish that area before you fit them to guarantee a greater chance of no leaks.

[Driftben]

Couldn't of said it better myself Dem,

Well as for the E36 half shafts, I'll have a look tomorrow. Might be able to come up with a solution without butchering anything I'll need to lose about 5-10mm either side to be comfortable.

As for the custom GNKs I best start saving now then haha.

I'll start looking for E36 medium case output flanges

[Demlotcrew]

Please get some photos I'm very interested to see what's possible, I'm tempted to have mines riffled down the middle and some GNK CV's on the ends, I would do all the work myself saving a little cost

[Motorhole]

The recess is for an inner lock ring that 'soft' locks the flange in the inner case.

The highly polished band just above the metal dust shield is from the seal, try and polish that area before you fit them to guarantee a greater chance of no leaks.

Thanks mate, that's good news for me then. I have E36 compact output flanges in a Z3M diff, was a bit worried I'd have to take the b*ast*rd off for a 3rd time...

Anyway, I have Z3M diff, E36 318ti output flanges and E36 318ti driveshafts. All bolts up just fine with no mods. Can post pics tomorrow if anyone is interested.

[Driftben]

I'd be pretty interested and I'm sure Dem would be too of these pictures you have motorhole. Get them up my good man

Just wondering, are your e36 output flanges off a 168 casing diff or the 188 motorhole?

[Motorhole]

Ok, photos! I should add that the reason I have 318ti driveshafts is because this is a 5-stud converted car - I got complete trailing arms off a 318ti breaker - there is no other special reason why I have chosen these shafts.

1) 1 Z3M LSD fitted with 325i backplate (bought the diff without backplate)



2) First attempt at fitting to E36 318ti driveshaft flanges using the Z3M output flanges. Obvious that they are never going to fit.



3) Comparison between Z3M output flanges (right) and 318ti (left). Not wanting to buy an entire used 318ti diff, the flanges were kindly posted to me from the US by someone on E30Tech for a reasonable cost.



4) 318ti output flanges fitted.



4) Diff fitted in situ with M6x40 high-tensile hex bolts and oem spreader plates (same as oem 318ti, except hex bolts rather than torx bolts - E15 is a bloody awkward size to find a socket for!).

[duracel79]

You can't get CV's from GKN Motorsport to mount onto the BMW Driveshaft. BMW used a different spline count (23) to those available.

I had to go for new shafts with GKN 25 spline CV's which wasn't the cheapest option, but they won't break now. Bear in mind this was E21 based so the same inner/outer CV's.





Added: Here's the GKN Catalogue:

http://www.gknservice.com/fileadmin/use ... alogue.pdf

[Demlotcrew]

4) Diff fitted in situ with M6x40 high-tensile hex bolts and oem spreader plates (same as oem 318ti, except hex bolts rather than torx bolts - E15 is a bloody awkward size to find a socket for!).

Interesting the bolts are only 40mm long (Also I think you mean M10?) The Stock E30 ones are 50mm long which means the E36 ti CV must be more compact and thats why everything fits.

[Demlotcrew]

Can I ask what the price of these was? I could have the Drive Shafts made up from 300m by a local firm, its the CV's I would source from GKN.

Also are those the light weight versions? Also the tripod version come in 23 tooth config, I wonder what the prices are of those.

[Motorhole]

Interesting the bolts are only 40mm long (Also I think you mean M10?) The Stock E30 ones are 50mm long which means the E36 ti CV must be more compact and thats why everything fits.

Apologies, I meant M8x40. The standard M10 E30 bolts wouldn't fit - although they do fit the Z3M output shafts:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=33&fg=25

[Demlotcrew]

Thats very interesting about the smaller M-8 bolts, are you running an M52? Do you recall the PCD of the 318ti Half Shafts?

[Motorhole]

It currently has no power, but yes, I have an M52 waiting to be dropped in. Unfortunately, I can't tell you the PCD - I don't know if some internet research would find anything? Realoem doesn't say very much

[duracel79]

Can I ask what the price of these was? I could have the Drive Shafts made up from 300m by a local firm, its the CV's I would source from GKN.

Also are those the light weight versions? Also the tripod version come in 23 tooth config, I wonder what the prices are of those.

The tripod design with 23 spline only comes with a body for 78mm PCD flanges, so don't think it will fit that well.

These were the prices I was quoted back in 2011 (plus vat + del)

1) - a motor sport joint which has 28 serr in the bore with 10mm bolt holes at £206-25p each

2) - a standard joint with 25 serr in the bore and 8mm bolt holes at £63-70p each

The boots are £30-75p each

The shafts will be £270-00p each

As I mentioned before I don't know what joints you can get for the hub end of the e30 shafts.

[Driftben]

The recess is for an inner lock ring that 'soft' locks the flange in the inner case.

The highly polished band just above the metal dust shield is from the seal, try and polish that area before you fit them to guarantee a greater chance of no leaks.

Thanks mate, that's good news for me then. I have E36 compact output flanges in a Z3M diff, was a bit worried I'd have to take the b*ast*rd off for a 3rd time...

Anyway, I have Z3M diff, E36 318ti output flanges and E36 318ti driveshafts. All bolts up just fine with no mods. Can post pics tomorrow if anyone is interested.

So did you find that the 318 ti drive shafts where slightly abit tight at all when coupling them up with the diff? ie slight abit too long?
Might have another go to get the lot coupled up tonight.

[Driftben]

well a quick update, i am now running the 188 LSD diff with E36 output flanges, coupled with E36 318ti driveshafts, rear subframe, hubs and trailing arms.

ill get some pics up later

[Motorhole]

Sorry bud, didn't see your post there! I found the 318ti shafts to be a good fit with that combination. Good to know you got it sorted!

[Driftben]

thats ok dude,
yep in the end i unbolted the bottoms of the shocks so the hub dropped down low to get the drive shafts bolted upto the output flanges on the diff...... jobs a gooden.

thanks for your help fellas

[Demlotcrew]

I would be a little reluctant to force them on, if they don't fit with the arms sitting higher up then it is most likely that the whole assembly is now under tension and will heat up very quickly. The shafts should bolt up pretty much at any arm position (with in reason).

Hope I'm wrong!

[Driftben]

its because the e36 drive shaft ends arnt flat and have raised surface of about 5-6mm which sits inside the output flange shafts that i couldnt get them to just slide in. if that makes sense.

i freely moved the wheel up and down with the drive shaft attached and it doesnt seem to be stiff at all.

ill keep a eye on it though.