Oil - You get what you pay for!

[oilman]

A word of caution Ԛ—a You get what you pay for!

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.

Quote:

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the Ԛ“EsterԚâ€a types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as Ԛ“hydrocrackedԚâ€a. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low Ԛ“WԚâ€a rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions.

We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the Ԛ“syntheticԚâ€a which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled Ԛ“syntheticԚâ€a.

Yes itÔš's a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called Ԛ“syntheticԚâ€a?

Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called Ԛ“syntheticԚâ€a.

Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight!
They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word Ԛ“syntheticԚâ€a could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of Ԛ“hydrocrackedԚâ€a mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of Ԛ“syntheticsԚâ€a is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with Ԛ“syntheticԚâ€a printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case.

But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd Ԛ“track dayԚâ€a, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil.

This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!

Unquote:

This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and IÔš've posted this with Johns permission.

Cheers
Simon

[DazzyA]

chief R & D old timer using "wet their knickers" tag line.
top man.

[oilman]

Indeed, great stuff and tells you a bit about 90% of whats on the shelves at most sheds.

Cheers
Simon

[johnono]

oilman , please give us a "top 10" of oils u KNOW are good and those u know are shite.

it would save us a load of time and questions if we could see it in black and white. not really worried if u know what the prices are as we can prbably sus out the top one is buckarinos and the lowest is pisspot poor

cheers fella

[koos]

I second that, good idea Johnono !!!!!

[DazzyA]

Me too, found previous owners receipt for 15w 50 cheapo tar so need some preety quick.

[Fushion_Julz]

Fink he has done that already here http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... opic&t=156

[johnono]

true, but what about


Sythetics

silkoline
motul
fuchs

duckhams
mobil
castrol
B&Q?

Semi Syn.

esso superlube
blah bla..

Like that it would be easier too see where on the quality scale the potential purchase lies

and engine type

Engines over 100k

m10 10w-40
m20 5w-40
m30 10w-50
m40 5w-40
m42 5w-50
s14 0 /5w-50

of course the oil would be specific to conditions and requirements, but with enough info..

[oilman]

The oils I know best are the oils I sell but I have analysis on many others.

Synthetics, proper ones that is are:

Tops

Silkolene PRO S
Motul 300V
Mobil1
Motul 8100
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL

Avoid

Cheapies
Duckhams
Comma
Magnatec

Anything that says semi, part, synthetic blend etc.

You'll find the good ones here, I don't and won't stock any old rubbish!

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

Cheers
Simon

[johnono]

star ;)

[koos]

Mobil 1 it is then !!!

[JOSEMI]

nice 1

[stoic]

So why does my tame spanner wielder (ex bmw) insist I use mineral based oil? He claims it is better for high mileage engines, is this true? I'm very confused.

[oilman]

What do you call high mileage?

Cheers
Simon

[Ziggy]

What's wrong with comma? I'd only heard good things (at least about their fully synthetic) before?

Cheers

[oilman]

Expensive stuff that ;)

Cheers
Simon

[Ziggy]

Ԛ£30... Didn't seem *that* cheap!

What's actually *wrong* with it then?

[Apal]

I've used Magnatec for years in turbo and non-turbo cars and all seems OK, its also not exactly cheap (what I'd call cheap) so am intrigued as to why you suggest to avoid it.

Currently have a Toyota Supra 3.0 turbo that has over 225K miles and has only ever had magnatec in it. Not doubting your statement, just intrigued as to why.

[oilman]

These oils are fine for everyday stock road cars but there are so much better quality ones out there for around 20% more money.

These oils are the hydrocracked variety and not true synthetics.

It's your car and money, personally I'd pay a little more and get the real thing as you are not getting VFM with these oils.

Cheers
Simon

[Apal]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for that, Mobil 1 it is then. Though with 225K I suspect that it may be a case of shutting the stable door etc.

[Ziggy]

Fair 'nuff Simon cheers

Is there any reason you recommend a different grade of oil for a semi vs a fully synth? Or are the semis just not available in 5w40? & could you PM me a price on a 5L Silkolene fully synth (delivered)?

I've always wondered what own brand oils (eg Halfords) are: I can't imagine they make it themselves, so is it something else rebranded?!

[oilman]

Fair 'nuff Simon cheers

Is there any reason you recommend a different grade of oil for a semi vs a fully synth? Or are the semis just not available in 5w40? & could you PM me a price on a 5L Silkolene fully synth (delivered)?

I've always wondered what own brand oils (eg Halfords) are: I can't imagine they make it themselves, so is it something else rebranded?!

Most SAE40 synthetics are 5w-40 or 0w-40.

Most SAE40 semi synthetics come in 10w-40.

Its all down to the base stock.

Yes, halfords have the oil made for them, to a very low budget.

Cheers

Simon.

[haffeel]

Gentlemen,

For my 325i machine I have been using FUCHS semi synthetic SAE 10W-40 and I managed to run about 9K plus Kilometres and changed it today. The car ran smooth and I think I can do couple of more thousand KMs if I wanted to but I changed new oil today to :

FUCHS Supersyn SL SAE 5W-40

I purchased this from the FUCHS HQ office in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. I was told by the sales guy, this is 100% fully synthetic oil and not a hydrocracked synthetic oil.

The label says :
Specifications Approvals

ACEA A3/B3/B4
API SL / CF
BMW special Oil
MB 229, 1/229.3
PORCHE
VW 502 00 / 505 00

Also it says:
Contains Fully Synthetic and MC - Synthesis base Oils

Now some one please tell me, what is this MC-Synthesis base Oils?


thanks

[kam-325i]

HYDROCRACKEDԚâ€a (HC) or MOLECULARLY CONVERTED (MC) BASESTOCKS

There are many petroleum oils available on the market that are so pure and refined, they can now be passed off as synthetics.
They are not made from true synthetic basestocks (at least not in the way that synthetics have traditionally been defined), but they have so little in common with traditional
petroleum basestocks, it is really somewhat silly to classify them as petroleum oils.
Petroleum oil basestocks can be put through a super-extreme refining process called
Ԛ“hydrocrackingԚâ€a. In some cases, as in the case of one particular name-brand "synthetic" oil, these highly refined petroleum basestocks can actually be termed and sold as "synthetic".
It is completely legal for lubricants manufacturers to label these oils as "synthetic".

These are extremely high performance petroleum basestocks, but they are not truly synthetic the way that most people understand the term and will not necessarily perform to the same level as a premium synthetic oil like PAO (poly alfa olefins) or Esters.

Hydrocracking involves changing the actual structure of many of the oil basestock molecules by breaking and fragmenting different molecular structures into far more stable ones. This results in a basestock which has far better thermal and oxidative stability as well as a better ability to maintain proper viscosity through a wide temperature range - when compared to a typical petroleum basestock.

Although contaminants are still present, and these are still petroleum basestocks, contamination is minimal and performance characteristics are high. This process also can turn a wider range of crude oil stock into well-performing petroleum lubricant basestocks.

From http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... 121715&h=0

[haffeel]

thanks, now I know the sales fella BS me

[Hammer1]

Surprising that fuchs supersyn aint proper 100% synthetic.I wonder which ones are proper no argument 100%??