mr moooore or anybody

[highlander112001]

hi brian
tried all what you said ie taking out relays and jumping them but that hasnt worked is there anything else i could try
this is what i tried today
ignition on door open windows work ignition on door closed nothing works
car running fuse 17 out door open still work same as when i take relay out close door and nothing
jump the relay open door works close door and nothing
tried jumping mirror relay aswell but no joy there either

fitted interior light relay and no joy with that either

[zaust]

If you go to the c101 plug check the green and black wire (pin 15) make sure this has power. If not get tracing it back to find your problem.

[mrLEE30]

as it is not clear what the problem is i am assuming your windows dont work with the doors closed??

further there is no relay accosiated with the windows, only fuse 11

if so check the doorlight switch in the driver door is working properly, there are two wires coming from it, one for the lights (Brown/Violet0 and one to the electric windows (not sure of colour)

[highlander112001]

hi mrlee
the door light switches are brand new from bmw drivers and passengers

[mrLEE30]

C101 is the big plug next to the fuse box by the way.

[mrLEE30]

i thought the electric windows come from fuse 11 through the C302 that is the big 25 pin plug next to the steering column just above the pedals?? specifically pin Q which is the middle most single pin.

does it go through the C101 too?

[mrLEE30]

hi mrlee
the door light switches are brand new from bmw drivers and passengers

yes but is the grounding point making contact properly?

[highlander112001]

if i goto the plug i dont have a green and black wire i have a solid green ,green and yellow ,green and purple ,brown and green,solid blue,blue and purple,blue and white,white and blue,white and black,white and blue and black and yellow

when unscrewing the screws that hold the switches i can hear them shorting out against the piller

[mrLEE30]

I don't understand your last sentence? What switch what screws and what do you mean by shorting?

[highlander112001]

hi mrlee
the door switch that works the intrior light and windows if i start to unscrew it i can hear it shorting against the body work

[mrLEE30]

It should not short as it is ground!! What you hear is probably a relay clicking as the ground makes contact then not again. Seems like your window and interior light issue is from here.

From memory the ground is made with the door open- thus the light comes on, the second circuit power the window circuit when the doors are open and ignition off.

Check this switch properly.

[highlander112001]

will have another bash at it tomorrow

[mrLEE30]

Sorry meant to add, also check the relay K5, this supplies fuse 17 and thus the window circuit.

[highlander112001]

mrlee
surley when you open the door this must make the door switch live as thats when the window switches in the consol light up and the windows and sunroof work

relay k5 i took that out and jumped pins 30 to 87 but to no avail

is there an another point in the electrical system that gets told when the doors are closed for the windows to work ( sounds stupid i know ) i have no consept of car electricals i hate it

[zaust]

Check that pin 15 in the c101 is live or not when the ignition is on. If not trace it back or cut and add your own switch live.

[mrLEE30]

ok start again. Getting confised what are the issues.

Does your interior light work with the doors open? can you swtich it on manually with doors open or closed?

When you SLOWLY push the door light switch (with the door open) can you hear a clicking, where does it come from? can you hear one or two clicks (mine has two first one clicks after a few mm, second one clicks after a few mm more)

Your windows only work when the door is open correct?

Is your 7.5amp fuse 10 ok?

you have a 30amp fuse in 17 thtas ok?

[daimlerman]

as it is not clear what the problem is i am assuming your windows dont work with the doors closed??

further there is no relay accosiated with the windows, only fuse 11

if so check the doorlight switch in the driver door is working properly, there are two wires coming from it, one for the lights (Brown/Violet0 and one to the electric windows (not sure of colour)

Just to make things a bit clearer,fuse 11(7.5A later cars,some early one's use 15A)is just for the fuel pump,nothing else is driven from this fuse.

[Brianmoooore]

Was watching this thread and never noticed that! All references that Lee has made to fuse 11 should read fuse 17.

Can you hear a relay click behind the glovebox area when you short the brown/blue wire at either front door pin switch to earth?
Is fuse 17 intact?
Pull out relay K5, identify pins 30 and 87 (marked on the relay case), and use a short piece of wire to link together these two pins on its socket. Does this make the windows work with the doors closed?

[mrLEE30]

sorry i also noticed that too!! but he already correctly said fuse 17 (and also by me in last post!!) - fuse 10 is for the supply of interior lights and also related to K5 IIRC.

Brian he has already jumpered K5 (see his last post) but whether he did correctly i am not sure as i would have expected the windows to work with K5 irregardless of the door position

[highlander112001]

hi mrlee
no the interior lights do not work with door open
yes i can turn them on/off manually with doors open/closed
yeah i can hear 2 clicks first click sounds like from drivers side second click sounds like from passenger side
fuse 10 + 17 are both ok
yeah windows and sunroof only work when drivers or passenger door are open
i took both wires off the door switch and earthed the the brown and blue wire to the body work
the window switches light up and stay on when the doors are closed and the windows go up and down
also i have no electric door mirrors or heater and i cant find the wire that goes to the starter i have a thick black one thick red one and a thickish short black one

[highlander112001]

update

took out k5 + k7 used thicker wire and jumped 30 to 87 now everything works including heater and wing mirrors so i guess i got 2 relays knackerd

[highlander112001]

turned car off took keys out and everything still worked until i took the jumper wire off

took k1 out and put it in k5 and nothing works

[Brianmoooore]

so i guess i got 2 relays knackerd

No, you have a problem with the black/green wire that goes to the starter motor - which I would have told you in your very first post if you made it clear that the windows, heater fan and mirrors all didn't work.
The wire goes to the smallest terminal on the motor solenoid - the one that needs a 8mm socket.
The colours of wires referred to are the colours of the actual wire, not the black outer sheath that all single wires, except the main battery and alternator wires, have on them.

[highlander112001]

sorry mr moooore for not making myself clearer
yeah i guessed that about the wire having a coat on it

what do you recomend doing to the green/black wire would i chop off the ring and put a new connector on it

[Brianmoooore]

sorry mr moooore for not making myself clearer
yeah i guessed that about the wire having a coat on it

what do you recomend doing to the green/black wire would i chop off the ring and put a new connector on it

Depends entirely what's wrong with it!

[highlander112001]

do you have any suggestions of to what might be wrong ????

[mrLEE30]

it is broken or the contact at either end is corroded.

[highlander112001]

mrlee
can you tell me if this is live or not

could i chop it say at the c101 plug and if its live take a jump from sumwhere else before it goes into the fuse box
i know its a quick fix but i just want it to work

[mrLEE30]

Not so simple as it is live while cranking and not at other times, so no it cannot just be bodged. It is designed to cut power to some accessories while starting to save max power for turning the starter motor.

You need to trace the black/green wire as Brian says.

[highlander112001]

ok think i know what you mean lol

so when the ignition is on am i right in thinking that this wire becomes live

so could i say take a wire from the starter and bypass the 101 plug and rejoin it just past the plug

[mrLEE30]

almost there! the relays K5 and K7 supply the accessories such as heated seats, windows, mirrors, heater, AC, K5 specifically supplies fuse 17 and the windows.

the coil on K5 is grounded along with K7 (hence why brian could diagniose your issue when he knew about the mirrors AND windows) through the starter motor via the black and green wire, thus the wire is generally grounded. However when you turn the key this wire becomes live., which means both ends of the relay coil are live and this means no voltage difference accross the coil so the relay opens and cuts power to the accessories ONLY while cranking, once running it is ground again and the relay closes and power is sent to the accessories.

there is a second power circuit for the windows that is operated from the relay you hear click when the door is opened, but your systrem here works, where you have an issue is the green and black wire, so yes by putting a temp jumper from the small connection on the starter motor to the pin 85 of the relays this should make your things work, and proves that the black/green wire is broken somewhere. also note the same wire has other functions such as the break wear indication.

note the black and green wire should run through the C101 socket as pin 15 so perhaps you can start checking for continuity using a multi meter set on resistance from this point to the starter motor and the other way to the K5 relay.

[highlander112001]

kool think i got it now
thank you and brian very much for your help

[highlander112001]

update

spent sat/sun on this problem and still no further forward

this black/green wire issue i cut the loop off the starter end and put a new connection loop on but that didnt work no surprise there to be honest


from what i can gather from mrlee is that when you turn the ignition on this black/green becomes live
i have a circuit tester that lights up and when i touch it to the black/green wire at the starter end nothing happens no light
going to the c101 plug i have to live wires a solid green and i think a green/yellow one
also this pin 15 i dont think i seem to have one

[Brianmoooore]

Green/black is only live (via a source resistance of several ohms) when disconnected from the starter motor terminal. When everything's connected up, it's only live when the engine is cranking.
Green/black goes through pin 15 of the C101.

[highlander112001]

hi brian

kool so i have went wrong there for a start i thought it was live as soon as the ignition was turned on
see this pin 15 is it opposite pin 4 ???

when i look at my c101 plug i have 1 2 (3blank) 4 5 6 and so on
when i look at wiki c101 plug it looks like pin 15 is opposite 4 but mines is blank
also mrlee says i can jump to pin 85 of the relays but where is it and how do i get to it
thank you for your help with this its doing my head in now and i feel like selling the thing now