brake upgrades

[chu346]

What size are your wheels Ian?

[Simon13]

they don't normally lock up!

We were on the way to the 'ring and the brakes were all new and had not been used very hard up to that point from when i did the rather harsh bedding in process!. So i said to demlotcrew who was in the car "shall i stamp on them and see what happens?!" he said yeah lets see!

So i did and there was loads of smoke and we slowed to about 50-60 from about 95!

We both agreed then that we wouldn't be braking like that on the circut once we got there! But they worked well in the hot conditions we experienced over there 35+.

We had no fade, but on one lap the rear pads were smoking or on fire! as one local told us as we came back into the pit stop

[chu346]

We had no fade, but on one lap the rear pads were smoking or on fire! as one local told us as we came back into the pit stop

That kind of thing worries me.

[Turbo-Brown]

Optimum braking happens marginally before the brakes lock. This is the point where they are working their hardest. The problem with this, is that it's also the point where they are generating the most heat.

Seem to recall that you get maximum friction when there's a 15% slip, i.e. the surface of the tyre is travelling ever so slightly slower than the road underneath it.

Does make sense actually if you look at a graph of friction relative to relative velocity.

[ian332isport]

What size are your wheels Ian?

7.5x17 with an offset of 35mm (VW Golf fitment). I have to use spacers to bring the offset back to where it should be.

Ian.

[Simon13]

We had no fade, but on one lap the rear pads were smoking or on fire! as one local told us as we came back into the pit stop

That kind of thing worries me.

the rear was standard disks and pads if i didn't say

[dav325i]

ian have you got an details of the company that supplied your brakes please.
ive got the chance of some very cheap 944 brembo 4pots and wondered if they would be able to supply brackets and bells etc
i know of a couple of companys that may be able to do it but they specialize in fords and not sure if they will be able to help.im witing on a few emails back from them.
or anyone else know any companys that will be able to help.
wheels are 7.5x17 but not sure on the offset tbh

[ian332isport]

ian have you got an details of the company that supplied your brakes please.
ive got the chance of some very cheap 944 brembo 4pots and wondered if they would be able to supply brackets and bells etc
i know of a couple of companys that may be able to do it but they specialize in fords and not sure if they will be able to help.im witing on a few emails back from them.
or anyone else know any companys that will be able to help.
wheels are 7.5x17 but not sure on the offset tbh

My brakes were supplied by a German company called Mov'it (www.movit.de). Unfortunately, I'm 99.9% sure they won't supply brackets or bells on their own. They won't even sell a rear brake kit unless you already have their front ones.

Ian.

[dav325i]

just been told the brackets id need are Ԛ£140 and can get the calipers for Ԛ£160 would also need the disks and bells which would be about another 300.seems like not to bad a price at that but not sure if id then need to change anything else and not sure if the wallet can take it

[KiwiCarl]

A really good brake setup for E30 is do a 5 lug conversion to the E36 and use the relatively cheap E46 330 brakes which are a good 325x25 size and bolt onto the E36 hub.
The good thing is with the 5 lug conversion you get more wheel choice.
The mintex 1155 are a good pads choice IMO.

[nikos]

does anybody has an opinion or used the 4 pot wilwood with 280 disk?
the prise is reasonable compared to other brands
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/pr ... ts_id=3912
nikos

[chu346]

does anybody has an opinion or used the 4 pot wilwood with 280 disk?
the prise is reasonable compared to other brands
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/pr ... ts_id=3912
nikos

I got them. There alright but I needed spacers to move the wheels out 3mm, and thats with the standard BBS wheels (ET24).

BTW you also need pads on top of the Ԛ£400, so Ԛ£450ish and would recommend groove discs (more expence). Also adapters required for brake lines, as its got american fitments (threads are different).

And the pads create high temperature dust which burns into your wheels. I now have the EBC pads.

[stappin]

No one else heard of using Volvo discs then?
I know the stud pattern is correct, because I use an ex Volvo spacesaver spare wheel on my wife's dual fueled touring.

What Volvo model is that my towing car an ovloV 940 is 5 stud?

[nikos]

thank you chu346, I supose that you have the bbs 15 but the alpina rep is 17 (I believe) offset so it will be ok

[chu346]

thank you chu346, I supose that you have the bbs 15 but the alpina rep is 17 (I believe) offset so it will be ok

It'll be worse. I got azev A's et35 with 15mm spacers and 3mm spacers

[oze30]

Julian_jules

Anychance of getting more info on your mates brake conversion??

[nikos]

on the german site there is a brake conversion
this is the tranlated site:
http://66.218.71.231/language/translati ... f01476.htm

[Julian_Jules]

Oze30,

Here's the link for the e21/volvo calipers upgrade on my mate's car...
http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/forums/i ... olvo&st=45

As mentioned on my previous post on this thread - I have a e38 mc/booster and after the installation, a month back - the brakes are very much better now. The effort is lighter and the pedals firm when the brakes bite.

Of course, I have to re-train my legs to modulate the brake effort as not lock the brakes in a panic stop esp in the wet but then I am not loony as well in such conditions.

The conversion requires some minor machining required at the clevis & a hydraulic line rerouting. As the servo housing is longer - the reservoir will touch the intake elbow slighlty but this can be solved by a remote reservoir mounting - not done it yet.

I have no complaints and would recommend this to anyone looking for a much needed e30 brake performance increase.

cheers.

[alexbaby88]

but it is a common myth; people go to uprate their master cylinders an put on bigger ones, you actualy need one with a smaller diameter rather than a larger one; as a larger cylinder would mean your pushing the same amount of fluid but with a piston that has a larger surface area, hence there is less braking effort overall by the time the pads are moved.

Not sure if I'm reading that right or not, but a larger diameter master cylinder WILL give a firmer pedal which requires a bit more effort to give the same amount of braking (but less travel). A smaller diameter master cylinder will give the pedal more travel, but you won't have to press so hard (just further) to get the same amount of braking.

Most standard E30's have a split bore master cylinder (22.2mm for the front brakes, and 17.4mm for the rear). You can use the E30 M3 cylinder that has a single bore of 23.8mm, or the E32 750i cylinder with a single 25.4mm bore.

Ian.

Hi Ian
Is it as simple as fitting the E32 master cylinder? What differences can I expect? My E30 has ABS, is there only one type of 750 MC?

Currently there is about an inch or so of pedal travel before the brakes bite and this is with s/s braided brake hoses and performance pads. There isnt the pedal feel that you get with say a E36 328i i.e. firm pedal from the top.

Cheers

[ian332isport]

Hi Ian
Is it as simple as fitting the E32 master cylinder? What differences can I expect? My E30 has ABS, is there only one type of 750 MC?

Currently there is about an inch or so of pedal travel before the brakes bite and this is with s/s braided brake hoses and performance pads. There isnt the pedal feel that you get with say a E36 328i i.e. firm pedal from the top.

Cheers

Alex,

Yes, it's a direct bolt in replacement. As far as I'm aware there is only one type on the E32 750. Make sure it's got 25mm (or 25.4mm) stamped on it somewhere though.

It's also worth checking that the E30 pedal linkage (that runs across the bulkhead) is adjusted correctly.

Sit in the driver seat and gently press the brake pedal up and down (just the first little bit of pedal travel). At the same time lean across and look at the push rod on the brake servo (drop the glovebox down and you can see the end of it). There's usually a bit of freeplay in the linkage and the pedal can move a fair way before the motion is transferred to the servo push rod. You still need a small amount of slack, or you will end up with the brakes being partially applied even without the pedal being pushed.

If it needs adjusting then slacken the lock nut on one of the linkage rods and adjust one of the Clevis's (or should that be Clevi ).

Cheers,

Ian.

[Lloydie38]

Re Brake upgreade, When I asked the same question on another site for my track E30 project car I got a reply from a guy that raced E30 325, E30 M3 and he said Willwood were A1 (from Rally Design) for the money (Ԛ£345), see below on what he said:

Wilwood for sure if you're on a budget, Ԛ£380 for discs and calipers I believe and we ran them on our race car this year and have to say that I was sceptical of the quality mainy because of the price. But, they have been SUPERB and the difference 4 pots have made is incredible, highly recommend them.

The only problem though is that the pad it takes is relatively small so we had to go for horrendously expensive pads to get the same bite, but if it's for trackdays this won't be a problem.

honestly i was amazed at how good they were, people (including me) snigger at them but for the cost they are an absolute bargain, the discs could do with being bigger though so for another Ԛ£400 you could get 304mm discs with ali bells made and then they'd be equally as good as any AP set up for 3/4 the price

3 series (E30) - F/Dyn - 280mm Vented Kit
[BK26A] Ԛ£345.00
Application: 3 series (E30)
Caliper Type: Dyn 2
Lug/Radial: L
Disc Size (Diam x Width): 280 x 22
Possible Wheelsize (Inches): 15
Spare Disc Part No.: 500-026A

Re what Pads for track days and fast road:
I woudn't use Miltex 1166 on 4 pots on track, you'll eat them very quickly I suspect, 1166 should be ok, but i'd use F1 or f4r's, more expensive but better bite

I've not done it on my car yet as need to get some extra Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ at the moment but this guy knows what he's talking about

Hope it's helpful

[alexbaby88]

Ian

What sort of effect would the 750MC give? My ABS shouldn't be affected?

BTW my Dakota thingy is on the way....

Thanks

[ian332isport]

Ian

What sort of effect would the 750MC give? My ABS shouldn't be affected?

BTW my Dakota thingy is on the way....

Thanks

Alex,

ABS will be fine. It only looks at the wheel speeds, and this won't change.

The 750 MC will give you a firmer pedal with less travel. You will however need to push harder to get the same level of braking as you have now.

An intermediate option is the 23.8mm E30 M3 MC, but you will also need to change one of the metal brake lines to fit this MC.

Good info here:

http://e30m3performance.com/installs/in ... c/25mc.htm

Ian.

[alexbaby88]

Ian

What sort of effect would the 750MC give? My ABS shouldn't be affected?

BTW my Dakota thingy is on the way....

Thanks

Alex,

ABS will be fine. It only looks at the wheel speeds, and this won't change.

The 750 MC will give you a firmer pedal with less travel. You will however need to push harder to get the same level of braking as you have now.

An intermediate option is the 23.8mm E30 M3 MC, but you will also need to change one of the metal brake lines to fit this MC.

Good info here:

http://e30m3performance.com/installs/in ... c/25mc.htm

Ian.

Thanks for the link and explanation Ian.

For street use, which would you recommend, the E30 M3 or E32 750 MC?

[alexbaby88]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ian332isport]

For street use, which would you recommend, the E30 M3 or E32 750 MC?

Alex,

That's a tuff call and is probably down to personal preference.

I've never driven an E30 with standard sized brakes and the 750 MC (or the M3 one for that matter), so hard to advise. I guess the M3 MC is the safer option, but is a bit more work to fit. It may just come down to what you find first for a good price.

I would personally try the 750 as it's a simple swap. If you find you don't like this then find an M3 MC and fit this (and the required pipe).

Ian.

[alexbaby88]

Thanks again Ian. Will try to report back when I get around to trying this out!