Help - Stranded

[GBB]

Fortunately on my drive.

Got the 320 out tonight ahead of the Ace Cafe tomorrow mornig and popped to the shop down the road. Started fine after problems a few weeks ago.

Once stopped wouldn't start. Tried hammer on starter motor, no joy. Tried jumping it, and no joy then suddenly, randomly success.

Drove it home thinking it would be OK but it's now refusing to start totally.

Nothing at all seems to happen when I turn key to start position.

I know it all points to starter motor but the lack of any action whatsoever and no indication of voltage drain (put headlights on and saw no drop in lighting when moving to start position) lends me to thinking it's not getting power for some reason.

So far I can think of:

1. Relays (are there more than the three mounted in black box? I've heard mention of the column).

2. Alarm/immobiliser - A BMW fit one, seems to be mounted in glovebox.

3. Something else!

Any ideas?

Any known weak spots?

Any help appreciated, was hoping to get to Ace but right now getting 100 yds would be great

[magpie]

fuel pump connection

[craigieeb]

Have you done the basics?
checked the fuses?
made sure the relay's under the bonnet are in and secure? (give the white one a tap with a screwdriver handle)
any loose/broken wires around the starter?

[GBB]

fuel pump connection

Where?

If it was that wouldn't it crank but not start?

[GBB]

Have you done the basics?
checked the fuses?
made sure the relay's under the bonnet are in and secure? (give the white one a tap with a screwdriver handle)
any loose/broken wires around the starter?

Yes done that, removed and cleaned pins on all of them and given them a shake and a tap. When I turn on the ignition then only the fuel pump ones, really seems to click. Two of the relays in the fuse box seem to click as well but from what I read none of the relays in the fuse box were related to starting.

Wires around starter all look ok, and checked battery to body earth.

There is one thing that doesn't make sense. Under the MAF there is a plug with nothing connected to it, and no sign of anything that should be connected to it either as if it was part of the loom but not connected up on all cars. It's been there for a while though and didn't stop it starting last week.

[magpie]

check for a spark then check the pump gives a buzz.

take a plug out and see if it's wet or has a spark.

plug the removed sparky plug back into the lead and get your mate top hold it when you crank the donk over.if he does the moon walk check the fuel.

[GBB]

check for a spark then check the pump gives a buzz.

take a plug out and see if it's wet or has a spark.

plug the removed sparky plug back into the lead and get your mate top hold it when you crank the donk over.if he does the moon walk check the fuel.

Problem is it won't crank, so I won;t get a spark?

[GBB]

Should add, I've done the 11 and 14 bit and that also only got a click

[craigieeb]

duff starter

[GBB]

I'm so hoping it's not!!

It was the randomness that made me wonder if it wasn't. I guess I need to check earths as well.

Would the pin shorting bypass all relays and switches (thus proving it to be the starter?)

[Brianmoooore]

Shorting the diagnostic socket pins bypasses the power feed to the car body loom and everything relevant in the body loom.
If you just get a click, the problem is the starter assembly itself, the earth strap from the engine to body, or either of the large leads to the battery.

[fixedwheelnut]

Get a volt meter and check the voltage to the starter solenoid connection with the key held in the cranking position and check the engine earth, if they are good your starter has had it.

It does sound like that anyway especially as it went once clumped with a hammer, that usually points to worn brushes

[daimlerman]

My money is on the starter motor!

A very sad task on an M20 engine...

[bab-91]

im useless at locating problems that a manual doesn't spell out.
but friend had a problem with a old polo saloon with earthing , ure story sounds very close to the way his car acted.

[scott320i]

mine dose this on occasions.... manly when the voltage drops a little
i get it to go every time by jumping a short wire with a spade connector on the starter soloniod directly to the batt wire on the starter
you need to take the starter signal wire off first though

[GBB]

mine dose this on occasions.... manly when the voltage drops a little
i get it to go every time by jumping a short wire with a spade connector on the starter soloniod directly to the batt wire on the starter
you need to take the starter signal wire off first though

Thanks. Had decided to try that but didn't realise I'd need to take of the starter wire. Which is that?

[Brianmoooore]

Had decided to try that but didn't realise I'd need to take of the starter wire. Which is that?

You don't, but it's exactly the same as connecting the two pins on the diagnostic socket anyway, except for two connections.

[scott320i]

Had decided to try that but didn't realise I'd need to take of the starter wire. Which is that?

You don't, but it's exactly the same as connecting the two pins on the diagnostic socket anyway, except for two connections.

on mine its the bottom spade black and yellow i think
for the time it takes its worth doing even if it is the same as the diagnostic plug

[Brianmoooore]

Even if you try it by shorting the 13mm nut to the 10mm nut on the starter, there's still no need to remove the black/yellow first.

[daimlerman]

Had decided to try that but didn't realise I'd need to take of the starter wire. Which is that?

You don't, but it's exactly the same as connecting the two pins on the diagnostic socket anyway, except for two connections.

on mine its the bottom spade black and yellow i think
for the time it takes its worth doing even if it is the same as the diagnostic plug

Would it not be easier,safer and better all round to charge the battery up?

[GBB]

Thanks for all your help. I'm now older and far wiser.

Good news - engine earth is great (virtually 0 resistance) and power is going to the starter.

Bad news - it must be the starter then.

Convinced it must be the starter I gave it a harder thump, and hey presto it turned over. Got it into my garage round the corner, stopped it and retried. Dead. Another thump, turn key and result. Off and back on OK then.

I'll have a go at most stuff but the stuff I've read on starter motor access problems leads me to think this might just be one for the garage.

Was planning to do Ace Cafe today, can't work out if I'm annoyed to have missed it or grateful not to have got stranded on the journey!

[daimlerman]

Yes,the starter is difficult to get at,but it's not impossible to do!

And whilst you are struggling to get it out,just think of the amount of beer you can buy with the saved labour charge....that's my favourite motivation!

Do dis-connect the battery first,please.