Oil in my water

[Jim320i]

Been trying to figure out some issue in my car and I seem to have oil in my water.


Does this mean the head gaskets are done and need replacing?


I was looking water through a lose hose up until yesterday, but now that is tightened it hasnt drained but is very oily.


Is there anything I should check before hand to make sure before I get a quote for the head gasket being done. Stupid car costing me stupid money again.

[James325]

Is it an auto? I seem to remember the auto's have an oil cooler built into the rad. If that leaks even a tiny bit then that could be it?

'Course if it's manual ignore me!

[eltel]

fingers crossed it is just the head gasket..but be prepared for a cracked head..if yours is a 320i you maybe lucky as they dont tend to crack heads like the 325's.

do a compression test, also stick an exhaust gas analyser into the coolant expansion tank and see if you have any exhust gases in there. those two tests should confirm a duff head gasket

[Jim320i]

Its a 325i Auto.


Seems the oil on the cap of the engine also looks a bit like dirty mix.


How much am I looking at if it is the headgasket gone from a local garage? I have a mechanic friend who will do it for loads cheaper but would be good to knwo what the shops charge. And how long would it take a knowledgable mechanic to do? Bit guted as I need to drive it to work tomorrow so need to sort it today... Yet I dont see it happening.

[eltel]

taking the head off is not hard, just a process of removing bolts and pipes remembering where they go.

if it is a 325 i wouldn't put the head back on without having it presssure tested..most 325's i know of having water in the oil have a cracked head as opposed to a duff headgasket.

what mileage has the engine done?

[telski789]

where does the 325i head tend to crack??

[penton08]

i would not touch anything until your sure the head gasket has gone!!! a compression test or a sniff test is the best way to tell for sure. as said above the auto rads have been known to let gearbox oil into the water system, is there signs of water in your engine oil? is there any sign of water in the gearbox?

[eltel]

yes definately do not do it until you have confirmed it has gone..

the heads usually crack around the cam carrier posts or across the base under the cam.

if you whip the the rocker cover off and clean away the oil, you can sometimes see a crack with a torch.

[whipsey]

where does the 325i head tend to crack??

you wanna borrow my tester tel?

[telski789]

where does the 325i head tend to crack??

you wanna borrow my tester tel?

bring it round fella...can you test it when its not running??!!!

[whipsey]

where does the 325i head tend to crack??

you wanna borrow my tester tel?

bring it round fella...can you test it when its not running??!!!

as long as it cranks over you can mate needs plugs outta the way

[Brianmoooore]

yes definately do not do it until you have confirmed it has gone..

the heads usually crack around the cam carrier posts or across the base under the cam.

if you whip the the rocker cover off and clean away the oil, you can sometimes see a crack with a torch.

If you run it with the rocker cover off and the cooling system up to pressure, you can see beads of coolant emerging from the crack or from the cam bearings.

[telski789]

you wanna borrow my tester tel?

bring it round fella...can you test it when its not running??!!!

as long as it cranks over you can mate needs plugs outta the way

great stuff...sorry to steal thread but if you have any spare stuff like,leads,coil,dizzy,rotor,crank sensor bring them too!! cheers

[Jim320i]

There is water in the oil too. As daft as it sounds, how do I go about having it pressure tested etc? Its also smokey which I thought was just due to the cold weather but now i'm relating it to the problem.

Need to check the gearbox for water though like suggested. Can I do that by just looking at the dip stick or do I have to look elsewhere?


I spoke to my old man and he said he will be able to replace the headgaskets for me tomorrow if I take it down to him so just need to pick one up and hopefully get it sorted. But need to make sure it is that first.

[telski789]

There is water in the oil too. As daft as it sounds, how do I go about having it pressure tested etc? Its also smokey which I thought was just due to the cold weather but now i'm relating it to the problem.

Need to check the gearbox for water though like suggested. Can I do that by just looking at the dip stick or do I have to look elsewhere?


I spoke to my old man and he said he will be able to replace the headgaskets for me tomorrow if I take it down to him so just need to pick one up and hopefully get it sorted. But need to make sure it is that first.

i wish my old man would do that for me!! just make sure you get the head skimmed!! £40-50

[whipsey]

failing that i have a good bare head sat here

[Jim320i]

How much is your good barehead whipsey? Saying that I need to fix it tomorrow so I can return to work. Being self employed means if I dont go work, I dont get paid... And having 2 weeks off over christmas didnt help.


@telski - Where can I get the head skimmed, i.e what kinda places do it as I'm guessing they wont just do head skims at these places...

[telski789]

http://www.yell.com/s/engine+reconditio ... shire.html

[Jim320i]

Also, looking at GFS site http://www.gsfcarparts.com/


Which set am I looking for?

111BM0050 CYLINDER HEAD GASKET-BQ E30 325i 85>91 M20 16.85

114BM0140 CYLINDER HEAD GASKET SET E30 325i 85>91 M20 BQ 59.00

??? Hopefully the first one but I dont know what BQ is.

[telski789]

bq means better quality...

[Jim320i]

Thanks mate, so the £16.85 will be what i'm after anyway as I'm assuming a set would have lots of bits that aren't being replaced, or am I being naive and too hopefull?

[eltel]

jim.. if you rush this then yes you will be driving the car tomorrow..but you'll probably be taking the head back off again next week to see why it is still using water or leaking oil from a seal you didn't replace.

if you take the head off, get it pressure tested and skimmed, replace the head gasket,inlet and exhaust gaskets, thermostat housing gasket and check the rubber half moons in the head that the rocker cover sits on but generally i'd replace them along with the rocker cover gasket.

depending on the state of your curent ones also consider water pump and timing belts

do things once..do things right!!

[telski789]

jim.. if you rush this then yes you will be driving the car tomorrow..but you'll probably be taking the head back off again next week to see why it is still using water or leaking oil from a seal you didn't replace.

if you take the head off, get it pressure tested and skimmed, replace the head gasket,inlet and exhaust gaskets, thermostat housing gasket and check the rubber half moons in the head that the rocker cover sits on but generally i'd replace them along with the rocker cover gasket.

depending on the state of your curent ones also consider water pump and timing belts

do things once..do things right!!

this is what you should do....but as always the wallet decides!!

[James325]

As said don't rush this. (easy for us to say)
The set should have things like valve stem oil seals and other such delights, most will be needed. If It was my engine and the head was coming off then defo pressure test then skim finally I'd regrind the valves.

[eltel]

like the other guys say the wallet will have the final say, but you may have to re-open the wallet very soon if it is not stretched a little this time

[Jim320i]

Well currently i'm limited to about £100 quid. Aslong as I can afford everything that is needed then there should be no problem, but we'll see what it all adds up to.


I'll be heading down my dads in the morning with it and going from there so we'll have the whole day to hopefully get it sorted.


The water pump & timing belts where supposedly changed 2500 miles ago but I suspect they wasn't. Hopefully they were though. Regardless, for the price of a timing belt i'll get one anyway. Already got a rocker cover gasket sitting around so hopefully its the right one as I bought it for my 320i chromie but most likely wont be the same.


I think all i'm gonna be able to sort is getting the main problem fixed so I dont smash my engine in the mean time, if the other bits need doing at a later date i'll have to them then as I cant afford all the parts at the minute and to do so I need to sort out the head gasket first so I can go work to earn cash to pay for anything else! Catch 22.


I'll get the head skimmed and tested etc when its off tomorrow and let my dad carry on doing what ever he needs to do while I get this done.

Hopefully it doesnt turn out to be too pricey. If it was any other time of the year I usually have a £500 spare at home but christmas and time of work didnt help that.

[town325i]

If your tsaking the head off the engine you NEED TO HAVE IT AT LEAST PRESSURE TESTED if you dont you will be sorry ive lost count how many cylinder heads i swapped last year for on thing or another.

I wouldnt remove a head with out having a pressure test and a skim but thats me.

Also when removing the belt its good practise to renew it even if its not that old dont want it snapping after changing the head do you.

[James325]

Good luck. Fingers crossed it's just a gasket failure!

[Brianmoooore]

What EXACTLY are the symptoms you are seeing? Hoe much oil is in the water? How much water in the oil? Is the coolant level decreasing? Is the oil level increasing?

[Jim320i]

@town325i - How do I go about pressure testing it though? Never had this problem before you see so never needed to know.


@Brian -

How much oil is in the water? - Its full of very brown and thick looking oil.

How much water in the oil? - I have literally taken the cap of the rocker cover to look in and the bottom of the cap is the same as as the water tank consistancy, although not looked further into it.

Is the coolant level decreasing? - It was until yesterday, I checked over all the hoses and found a few of them not tightened at the jubilee clip, tightened them and now I see the oil in the water. (Could this be a way of disguising the oil by leaving the hoses loose so the water drains? If sold by someone trying to shift a motor with a suspected head gasket failure?)

Is the oil level increasing? - Just going to check and will edit this answer in a metr of moments.

---===EDIT===---

Checked the dip stick for the oil and it seems to to be the same level as before (About half way between the markers) and the oil seems to be fine, if a little brown. But nothing bad (still usuable), but I did run my finger on the inside end of the rocker cover cap and that is like a very creamy oil.

Also checked over the water tank again and the oil in there is very thick and running slowly and i tried to wipe it off my hand and back into the tank and it slowly dripped back down.



Also add, she has been idling at 500 rpm. She has a lose jubliee clip on the fuel hose connecting to the injectors, and is smokey more than my other e30's. White and smelly smoke if that helps.

[Brianmoooore]

Hmmm! This seems much worse than I gathered from another of your threads. It seems very likely that this is a cracked head, and more than likely that you have been well and truly "stitched up" I'm afraid.
Get the cooling system up to pressure, and run the engine with the cam cover off. Watch under the cam and the rear two cam bearings to see if you can see beads of water forming and escaping.

[Jim320i]

Poooo. Thats not good news.


If it is a cracked head, whats my solution? New head or that one being welded? Is this a 'specialist job' or can any welder do it? My best friend is a welder by trade and a good one, but is it different from normal and is there a certain way etc?


Now... Just to check what I am suppose to do.


Run the car until at normal temperature?

Then remove the rocker cover? And watch for the above?


Shall I remove the rocker cover first and then leave it on so I can just lift it off when hot or will this not build up the pressure? Will the engine not cut out if I remove the rocker cover? Or am I just being silly?

[Brianmoooore]

Engine will run rough at idle with the cover off (same as it should with the oil filler cap off), and will splash a few drops of oil around.
The pressure you need to build up is in the cooling system. You need it at the full 1.4 bar working pressure.
Head welding is a very specialised job, and a badly welded one will almost certainly fail again.
Your best solution would be to get a complete engine or head from a trusted seller on here. The long term ones with loads of 100% good feedback are the ones to buy from.

[James325]

Now... Just to check what I am suppose to do.


Run the car until at normal temperature?

Then remove the rocker cover? And watch for the above?


Shall I remove the rocker cover first and then leave it on so I can just lift it off when hot

Yes to the above. you need the engine hot so the coolant is at some sort of pressure and the crack your looking for will open up more when hot.

[Jim320i]

Sorry for the stupid question, but how do I test the pressure of the cooling system etc?


And I'm assuming complete engine isn't going to be cheap.


And a head, ermm, whipsey, how much did you want for yours mate? Proper gutted.


With what I mentioned about about things being loose etc, is that a way to cover this kinda problem up? Because I feel like i've been shafted. And let a good 318i go for it.