1987 325i Sport not starting

[DBB83]

Hi guys

I am looking for some ideas to help solve a problem with my 1987 E30 325i sport.

I bought the car from a guy who had owned the car for 5 years. The test drive seemed absolutely fine, as did the driving subsequently for an hour or two afterwards. It ran perfectly and accelerated cleanly.
However, I was driving the car in the evening when all of a sudden it spluttered and cut out. The engine would turn over but would not fire up again, so I got my friend and brother to push the car to see if it would bump start, which it did but it ran extremely badly.


It will just about idle and drive at around 1,000 revs but as soon as I try to accelerate it becomes extremely jerky and with too much throttle will just cut out again. I managed to drive it home slowly (about a mile) and park it up.

Strangely, there is no spark at any plugs when cranking, including the main lead from the ignition coil, so I have tried the following:
- Replaced with a new coil. (Both coils gave exact same reading with multimeter anyway and as Haynes spec)
- Replaced the ECU with another 073 ecu (Motronic 1.0)
- Tested both crank sensors and checked with a multimeter as Haynes spec
- Checked a main fuse that runs on a separate direct wire from the battery.
- Checked all relays and fuses that I can find either by inspecting visually or swapping out. The only one I have not tested is one of the two relays under the bonnet that are mounted on top of the near-side strut as I do not have a spare.
I am completely stumped and it took me weeks to find the ECU I hoped would fix it, with no success. To me the symptoms I am experiencing seem quite strange and must indicate one of a few remaining answers. The only other ideas I have (mainly from research on the net) are:
- A dodgy earth somewhere
- A bad relay
- A lose / broken wire
- Pickup on crank may have come off
- ECU (I may have been sent a dodgy replacement as I have no idea how to test)
Do you guys have any ideas?

I have a guy coming to look at it next week to see if he can diagnose it but if he is stumped I will probably just scrap it. Seems a shame to scrap a genuine E30 sport as I am sure these are getting rarer.

Thanks in advance guys. I appreciate you even reading this long post

[jbh]

where abouts are you? as you say it could be the pin has came out the flywheel. also have you thought about changing the engine loom over to the Motronic 1.3 from the face lift 325i ?

[DBB83]

Hi mate, Thanks for the reply. I'm in Sutton, Surrey.

I have thought about doing a 1.3 ecu and loom swap so I could at least do diagnostics but I heard it Is a big undertaking which required changing lots of parts?

I am reasonably confident with running wires etc etc but for now I want to get this problem solved or at least diagnosed before I start spending days working on the car only to be back where I started!

[Ant]

Get her up here dude.

We have the technology

[Theo]

Yep sounds like the infamous pin on the relay. Mine pinged off a few years ago much to my annoyance.

To confirm take off the inspection cover which bolts to the gearbox bellhousing and rear underside of the engine block. Shine a torch in there and you should see the offending item sitting there in the bellhousing.

[DBB83]

Thanks guys - had not expected such quick responses!
Theo - did you mean pin on the flywheel or relay?

If a pin has come off is it repairable? Can it be put back again!?

[jbh]

get it up to Ant to be converted to motronic 1.3 far more reliable set up. I'm in the middle of doing mine as well.

[Ant]

TDC ref pin in flywheel dude, may just run without but not very well.

easy to spot as Theo stated.

I assume the car stopped after giving it some beans in anger ?

[Theo]

Thanks guys - had not expected such quick responses!
Theo - did you mean pin on the flywheel or relay?

If a pin has come off is it repairable? Can it be put back again!?

Sorry, meant the flywheel!

[DBB83]

Thanks guys - had not expected such quick responses!
Theo - did you mean pin on the flywheel or relay?

If a pin has come off is it repairable? Can it be put back again!?

Sorry, meant the flywheel!

I guessed that was what you meant.

I will jack the car up over the weekend, take the inspection plate off and see if the pin is attached to the flywheel.

If it is not present what is the next step? Get a new flywheel or can the pin be replaced / fixed back on?

[Theo]

The pin can't be re-attached so it's a case of either replacing the flywheel with an undamaged one from another pre-facelift 325i (no other models use the same flywheel) or you can fit the whole motronic 1.3 setup from a facelift car which saves you the hassle of removing and refitting the gearbox/clutch/flywheel etc.

I've sold a couple of these motronic 1.3 update kits recently, it consits of;

Engine loom
ECU
Injector loom
Trigger wheel
Aux belt pulley
Crank position sensor and bracket
Oil level sender
Cambelt covers
Ignition lead with pulse generator
Fuel rail

If you don't fancy doing the work yourself you're not too far from Ant who does all sorts of work on E30s, definitely recommended.

[DBB83]

Ok - a motronic 1.3 swap does make more sense if it saves replacing the flywheel.
I will have to check to see if it is broken.
What am I looking at price wise for kit / labour?

[kevo]

the pin/flywheel can be repaired, as i had this happen to mine about a year ago, it involves taking the flywheel off and making a new piece (if you have the facilities), i then press fitted it and put a tack of weld on with the TIG. a bit of a potch but it was cheaper for me than buying an upgraded motronic kit. only some info so you know it's possible rather than thinking there's only one course of action.
cheers
Kev

[DBB83]

the pin/flywheel can be repaired, as i had this happen to mine about a year ago, it involves taking the flywheel off and making a new piece (if you have the facilities), i then press fitted it and put a tack of weld on with the TIG. a bit of a potch but it was cheaper for me than buying an upgraded motronic kit. only some info so you know it's possible rather than thinking there's only one course of action.
cheers
Kev

Hi Kev

Thanks for the info. I am going to see if I can spot the problem by removing the inspection panel.

http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/MTU1X3A=.png

I think this diagram is the right one. Am I checking that pin 9 is in hole 8?

What symptoms did you have when your pin broke off?

[kevo]

Hi there, tbh that diagram isn't all that clear, it's a small metal tag more than a pin and there's a notch on the outside of the edge on the flywheel that the metal piece fits into. as soon as i took my cover off i saw a small battered piece of metal that looked a little like a section of a gear tooth lying in the cover. from memory i could see the part where it sat by turning the flwheel to the correct position and looking at the 'hole'.
my car went as i was giving it some beans pulling off very close to my house, i thought initially i'd done a drive shaft as the car seemed to shudder like hell, i managed to roll to my street and then checked all the usual pieces etc, my car however wouldn't run at all after the pin had come out and when it was finally replaced started instantly proving it was just that.
hope this helps
Kev

[DBB83]

Hi guys

Just to let you know that I got under the car yesterday and removed the inspection panel on the bell housing to find what looks like a chunk of the flywheel sensor 'pin'.
Looks like I am going to need a new flywheel!

Any suggestions on getting it fixed?

Has anyone replaced a flywheel / gearbox on an e30 before? I am tempted to give it a go but it would be stretching my mechanic skills and as I am sure many of you can relate to, it gets really frustrating lying underneath a car after a while!

I have also thought about sourcing a new flywheel and getting my local garage or mr clutch to replace it for me. Need to ring around and see what they would charge / how much I could save myself.

Would getting a 1.3 ecu kit mean I could avoid replacing the flywheel or would I still need to?
Also, how much is the kit / installation?

Thanks again for your help so far.

[jbh]

upgrading to the motronic 1.3 ecu will not require you to remove the gear box. you'll need to replace the bottom pulley on the front of the crank and while this is off bolt a sensor bracket to the front of the block. if you get the kit everything should come with it. ill be doing my engine this w/end all going well and could get some pictures if you want? only difference is my engine isnt in the car at present.

[Brianmoooore]

Get the debris out of the bell housing, replace the cover, and get that primitive management system replaced by the far more sophisticated 1.3.

[DBB83]

Any ideas of how much this 1.3 kit would cost?

Also, does anyone know of a video or set of instructions for gearbox removal?

[fowler]

Any ideas of how much this 1.3 kit would cost?

Also, does anyone know of a video or set of instructions for gearbox removal?

GET IT TO ANT AT A-TECH 01959534718 i am in croydon if you need help !!

[DBB83]

Any ideas of how much this 1.3 kit would cost?

Also, does anyone know of a video or set of instructions for gearbox removal?

GET IT TO ANT AT A-TECH 01959534718 i am in croydon if you need help !!

Cool - might give them a ring.

Any idea how much I am looking at?

[fowler]

sent you a PM mate

[DBB83]

sent you a PM mate

Got it

[fowler]

sweet

[DBB83]

Hi guys
I took the flywheel off and have discovered that part of the clutch release bearing had broken off which most likely knocked the sensor pin off.

I have uploaded two youtube videos to show what happened:


I hope this might help some e30 owners!

I am going to get a new clutch kit and try to source a flywheel from a breakers.
I feel so much closer to having the car running again!

[fowler]

really Play finding the flywheel game? lol only joking
which breakers are you going to use ??? as its a pretty specialised part as most of the cars they where attached to have now long disappeared and as its been previously stated that PIN IS A TICKING TIME BOMB as it can and will possbly happen again.
Don't want to piss on your fire but ther is an easier option in my opinion
but each to there own and good luck

Cheers
Ben

[DBB83]

The motronic 1.3 conversion will cost nearly as much as I paid for the car and is it really a ticking time-bomb? To me it just looks like the clutch bearing snapped and smashed the pin off, it did not just fall off.

[fowler]

they do just fall out willy nilly fella as i have seen people spend loads of cash to fix it then it goes and happens 3 months down the line. all you have to do it give it a little bit of beans and away it goes.
Plus the flywheel is in those places with rocking horse shit and hens teeth can be found as i said most of the cars attached with specific flywheel have been scrapped/dismantled mate.
You have a PM coming your way !
Cheers
Ben

[Theo]

I had one flywheel fail. I replaced it and gave it death for a year or two and the pin didn't fall off.

To call it a 'ticking time bomb' is a bit sensationalist.

[fowler]

well i had 2 fall off on mine within months so in personal experience its not far from the truth
but they are geeting to that age theo where its seems to be happening more and more i can recall approx 5-6 phone calls regarding this problem i think it may be an age related thing
but each to there own

Ps theo whens the last time you came across a early flywheel withput a bolt welded in the whole ????

[fowler]

well i had 2 fall off on mine within months so in personal experience its not far from the truth
but they are geeting to that age theo where its seems to be happening more and more i can recall approx 5-6 phone calls regarding this problem i think it may be an age related thing
but each to there own

Ps theo whens the last time you came across a early flywheel withput a bolt welded in the whole ????

[Theo]

I didn't have any problems finding one, maybe I got lucky?

[fowler]

in deed that may the case

[DBB83]

Did you see the YouTube videos? That is the pin in question, right?

[Theo]

Yeah the first video shows the pin which has broken off. I would say that the broken clutch release bearing is an urelated failure.