Steering wheel judder

Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:05 am

There's probably a post on something similar somewhere but I can't find one so....

I've just put new tyres on some wheels I bought second hand and fitted them to the car (325i pre). The wheels have no sign of damage and balancing them after fitting the tyres was easy to get right first time so I don't think its a wheel problem.

Now at highish speed (over 60 mph) the steering wheel judders slightly , not like there's free play in the shaft, its being caused by the front end of the car itself.

The car doesn't vibrate at all, if I take my hand off the wheel I can hardly notice it, and its not worse when braking, if anything it disapears.

Front wishbones are both fairly new, one is brand new actually, so is steering rack....

What should I be looking at ?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:45 am

What wheels are they?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:00 pm

Bottle tops.

Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:11 pm

if it disappears when braking, possibly you have a sticking caliper and a slightly warped disc.

Go for a drive and then pull over and feel both of the front wheels, is one a lot warmer than the other?

I would also jack the car up and just spin the front wheels and check that they do not obviously look bent or obvious problems you can see with the eye. Is the hub face all clean both on the inside of the wheel and on the front disc? Any crap and you may not be mounting the wheels truly flush with the hub face.

Process of elimination really, sounds like you have replaced quite a few suspension/ steering components already which can sometimes be the cause of wabbles and judders.

Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:14 pm

My last E30 had the same problem,and all the wheels balanced up ok.Turned out that one of the front wheels was slightly buckled,according to the guy in the tyre shop.
I replaced it with the spare,and the problem wheel went into the boot. Sorted!

Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:02 am

Thanks for the suggestions.

I did fit the wheels in a bit of a hurry so it could be that they are badly seated. I think I'll swap the fronts to the back and see if that makes a difference.

I have had one binding caliper on the front recently but I thought I'd sorted it but if it doesn't judder when braking its unlikely the diss is warped no?

No real problem if it is as I'm planning a full brake clean and replace (discs, pads, calipers/seals, flexi lines and fluid) in the near future anyway.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Priority has now shifted to the E39 which has decided to eat fuel pump fuses....

Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:07 am

99% of the time it will be a wheel out of balance, this includes buckles, throwing a weight etc... Its not uncommon for tyre places to screw up the balancing either.

Other things I can think of, a loose wheel, using wheels that need hub adapters.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:36 am

I fitted the tyres and balanced them myself.... not sure if thats a positive or negative comment.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:20 pm

Changed the wheels over, fronts to back, backs to front and checked for anything which would not be leeting them seat properly and.....

Absolutely no difference. At least I can be fairly sure its not a wheel problem.

Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:46 pm

Might not be strictly relevant, but I had a terrible judder 75 mph plus and it was driving me mad. I had the wheels balanced several times and all sort of experts looking and stroking their chins.

Then I swapped the front wheels over with the rear wheels, just to clean and fiddle with the arches really, as well as even out the tyre wear. Bonus side effect was that now everything is smooth as butter! No judder at all at any speed.

Might be worth a try.

Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:49 pm

Have you checked the wheels are all tight?

I hope so!

Andy

Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:01 pm

Have you got another set of wheels & tyres you can put on to see if it eliminates the problem?

I assume this problem did not exist until you fitted the current wheel/tyre combo?

Otherwise, worn track rod ends can sometimes cause judders

Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:33 pm

I had something similar - changing the front control arm bushes cured it for me

Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:39 pm

OK to answer the above:

I've already swapped wheels front to back and back to front. No difference.

Wheels were done up with an air rachet both times so yes, they're tight.

No I don't have another set of wheels to try. Might be able to blag some though.

Control arm bushes eh ? Where would I be looking for those ? (Photo anyone ?)

Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:43 pm

Just did a search. Control arms are what I was calling wishbones and I understood that the bushes came as part of the control arms ?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:47 pm

the lolipop bushes are the control arm bushes, the ones that the rear part of the wishbones poke into

Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:29 pm

E30BeemerLad wrote:the lolipop bushes are the control arm bushes, the ones that the rear part of the wishbones poke into

And are a common cause of steering vibration at medium/high road speeds, but, since these bushes are not reusable, if you have new control arms, you should have new bushes as well.
Are they fitted the correct way round?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:58 pm

Dont tighten wheels up with an air ratchet

Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:20 am

Black_Potato wrote:Dont tighten wheels up with an air ratchet

Any reason,other than they're bloody hard to get undone again?!

Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:30 am

Seeing as you have established that it's not the wheels and the wishbones have been replaced - potentially without renewing the control arm bushes - I would try these

It's not a particularly difficult job - there's a guide on here somewhere I belive

Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:44 pm

Daf318is wrote:Seeing as you have established that it's not the wheels and the wishbones have been replaced - potentially without renewing the control arm bushes - I would try these

It's not a particularly difficult job - there's a guide on here somewhere I belive

Having had a very quick look last night before it got dark it looks like this could well be the case, arms look as new as they are, bushes, however, do not look of the same vintage....

Thanks Daf, thats another thing on the "to do list"

Edited to add that I didn't replace the control arms, both were done by local dodgy Spanish mechanics.....

Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:10 pm

Holy thread revival...

I did change my CABs a few months back and since then have driven the car on short journies, mainly in traffic. But today I got to give it some welly (on a closed road you understand

) and guess what, at high speed I still have a front end vibration.

It does seem different to before, more as if the whole car vibrates aswell as the steering...

Any more ideas ?

Just to keep you in the picture, since I first posted the problem I have done the following:

Used 3 sets of wheels (steelies, bottletops and now on 14" bbs)
CABs replaced (with Z3M solid rubber items)
Brake discs and pads replaced
Brake fluid changed and calipers greased up and cleaned

Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:13 pm

got the same issue, new wishbones, bushes and tyres, been balanced but problem not gone!

Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:25 pm

Tracking ok on it? or track rod end duff?

Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:12 pm

Daf318is wrote:Tracking ok on it? or track rod end duff?

Tracking's not been done since..... well,,,,, before it was stolen and missing for 3 weeks then recovered.

Hadn't really thought about it since doing the CABs.

I suppose worn track rod ends would have shown up when I checked the wheels for any lateral & vertical play after bolting everything up after doing the CABs ? No play could be noticed trying to move the wheels by hand.

Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:44 am

I'd do the tracking first and take it from there! You can check it quite easily yourself with some string.

Fri May 28, 2010 9:31 am

Daf318is wrote:I'd do the tracking first and take it from there! You can check it quite easily yourself with some string.

UPDATE!

Tracking now done (took a while I know), no play in track rod ends either.

But there is STILL a slight vibration through the steering wheel... I'm at a loss with this now.

I've changed:

Wheels, discs and pads, CABs and now the tracking done...... What else can I check ?

Fri May 28, 2010 12:53 pm

same problem...everything new underneath but some slightly buckled rear wheels and around 80kmh wheel judders like mad...looking to get new wheels

Sat May 29, 2010 12:18 am

But I've even changed the wheels, twice !

When first up an drunning it was on steelies, just for MOT purposes. Then I put it on bottletops becaues they were cheap, now it's on BBS 14s, and it still vibes !

Is something bent ?

Sat May 29, 2010 1:35 pm

I'm out of suggestions sorry! Sort of replacing all the suspension bits to see if that eliminates it

- bit of an expensive option though!

Sat May 29, 2010 3:35 pm

poss vibe cause at speed?, same sort of thing with mine have you changed the front droplinks and anti rol bar bushes?, may be worth a look.......tracking being out would not cause a vibration.

Sat May 29, 2010 3:47 pm

slideout318i20 wrote:poss vibe cause at speed?, same sort of thing with mine have you changed the front droplinks and anti rol bar bushes?, may be worth a look.......tracking being out would not cause a vibration.

Tracking being out does cause vibration - I've experienced this more than once on various cars.

Seeing as you've changed everything else, you could try a pair of S/H hubs - I guess it's possible that some ape in the bast has bent something taking a disk off or doing some other work. I know it's unlikely but you appear to have tried everything else!

Has it ever been crashed? Is the chassis straight?