Suspension question.

[N00b]

I'm looking for opinions from the more experienced zoners on this one, as I'm questioning if I've gone in the right direction with my touring.

Uprating suspension:
It's not a daily drive, but I don't want it to be hardcore either. A sporty ride but still at least a small amount of comfort is what I'm looking for. I've fitted an uprated suspension kit with a 35mm drop, but the suspension is quite hard and it still rolls a little more than I'd like it to in the corners. It really crashes over the bumps, and after reading a post on here it's made me think.
Someone (sorry I forget who) posted within the last month that to acheive what I'm looking for, it may be a better solution to go for standard shocks/springs and instead fit uprated ARB's (mine are still standard touring parts).
Can anyone offer advice?

[jenad]

If I was planning my setup, I had the same things in mind. I've choosen Bilstein B4 with Eibach 35mm springs and adjustable Eibach anti roll bars. The Eibachs have nearly the same spring rate as those from M3 and offer still quite an ammount of comfort. With the anti roll kit, you can minimize the rolling and can adjust over or understeer. In the future, I will mount the connecting link of the anti roll bar to the struts, this will further help. The M3 has this setup factory-made.

[N00b]

If I was planning my setup, I had the same things in mind. I've choosen Bilstein B4 with Eibach 35mm springs and adjustable Eibach anti roll bars. The Eibachs have nearly the same spring rate as those from M3 and offer still quite an ammount of comfort. With the anti roll kit, you can minimize the rolling and can adjust over or understeer. In the future, I will mount the connecting link of the anti roll bar to the struts, this will further help. The M3 has this setup factory-made.

Sadly I haven't driven an e30 M3
How do you find this setup? 35mm is as low as I want to go for a few reasons, mainly as occasionally I need to have two passengers plus luggage.
If only the Eibach ARBs weren't so expensive

As a sidenote, can you give me more info on your comment about connecting the ARB link to the strut. Is this a common mod?

[jenad]

I don't know if it is common, but it makes more sense than then the solution at non M3's. I will move to this option, because my connecting links are very inclined. Mounted at the strut, they will be nearly vertical and the force of the anti roll bar will work without detour.

I'm very satisfied with my setup. Car is supposed to be handeled as you posted above.

Using the longer connecting links from the M3 or any other newer BMW will certainly improve the anti roll bar, even with the factory-made BMW parts.

You only need to weld a tab at the strut.

[N00b]

You only need to weld a tab at the strut.

This sounds like an interesting mod.
I don't suppose you could post a pic of yours, or link me to similar pics could you?
I can't weld at all, but if I can see what you've done and what parts you've used I can have it duplicated.

Thanks for your replies by the way, very informative.

[jenad]

After the winter break, I will use parts from here:

http://www.akgmotorsport.com/e30products.html

and it should look like this:



Picture shows a factory-made M3 strut. But that's the way it works.

[Brianmoooore]

It's the Eibach springs and the Bilstein B4s that will make the difference. The adjustable ARBs are an added luxury.
The front ARB on an ordinary E30 is connected part way along the control arm/wishbone, whereas on the M3 it connects effectively at the outer end of the control arm, thus, by the simple extra leverage supplied, gives about 50% (guess) added ARB rate using the same bar.

[jenad]

The M3 link connects the ARB dirctly to the strut. Not the leverage itself is changed, rather the point where it can work. In any case, the M3 setup will support the ARB better.

[Brianmoooore]

The M3 link connects the ARB directly to the strut.

To the strut, which is also (almost) the outer end of the control arm, although several cms above it, but in the same plane of movement. The increase in the effective rate of the ARB is as a result of moving this connecting point outwards.

[jenad]

Imho not an increase. Only the best effect possible of the ARB. The leverage itself isn't changed. The linkage at the control bar is a detour.

[Brianmoooore]

Not the leverage of the ARB itself - the leverage of the connecting point on the wheel is reduced on the ordinary E30 by being connected part way towards the fixed ball joint on the inner end of the control arm.
Think of moving the connecting point of the ARB to the control arm further and further inwards, until it reaches the inner ball joint, where the ARB will have no effect at all.
You would get the same effect as the M3 arrangement by using a wider ARB, and moving the connection point to the control arm further outwards.

[jenad]

The problem with such a setup and the setup used at non M3's is the bad positioning of the connection links. This is cleared with mounting them at the struts.

I can take a picture of my adjustable ARB- it can be clearly seen, that the CL are in bad ankle. A lot of effectiveness of the ARB is lost through it.

[e301988325i]

If only the Eibach ARBs weren't so expensive

On a budget, replace ARB bushes with powerflex items and renew droplinks front and rear. For about £50 in parts, at least that will get you back to original spec.

Some people prefer OEM BMW bushes, you'll have to make your own mind up.

[N00b]

If only the Eibach ARBs weren't so expensive

On a budget, replace ARB bushes with powerflex items and renew droplinks front and rear. For about £50 in parts, at least that will get you back to original spec.

Some people prefer OEM BMW bushes, you'll have to make your own mind up.

I've fully rebushed the rear axle (apart from the diff bush) with dealer parts, and all of the droplinks have been relace. I think I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and buy the Eibach ARB's though.

[e301988325i]

Did you renew front and rear ARB bushes + droplinks, nothing to do with the rear BEAM?? What suspension kit did you fit?? If you're upset by the price of eibach ARB's then I'm guessing not the best??

[jenad]

I would prefer the solution with the strut mounted connecting links and factory-made ARB now. The Eibach parts are a nice to have, but not really necessary. The M3-like option would be a lot cheaper and effective as well.

[N00b]

I would prefer the solution with the strut mounted connecting links and factory-made ARB now. The Eibach parts are a nice to have, but not really necessary. The M3-like option would be a lot cheaper and effective as well.

So am I right in thinking you mean retaining the standard ARB, but fitting the droplinks in the same way they're used on an M3?

[N00b]

Did you renew front and rear ARB bushes + droplinks, nothing to do with the rear BEAM?? What suspension kit did you fit?? If you're upset by the price of eibach ARB's then I'm guessing not the best??

TBH I can't remember if the ARB bushes were replaced, but all four droplinks definitely were.
I fitted an Apex kit, but it's a little harsh for my liking.

[jenad]

So am I right in thinking you mean retaining the standard ARB, but fitting the droplinks in the same way they're used on an M3?

Yes. This is a cheap solution and would be an improvement.

Apex is a lot more uncomfortable than the Bilstein/Eibach setup. I've driven one too and it was not my liking.

[N00b]

Yes. This is a cheap solution and would be an improvement.

Does anyone make up suitable brackets etc?
This could be a cheap fix and also an effective one by the sound of it. I suppose I'd need to get hold of some diagrams or measurements so my local workshop could do the work. I'm assuming that these brackets are welded to the strut and as such you have to use M3 ARB droplinks?
Is the M3 ARB itself a different design to the rest of the E30 range?

Apex is a lot more uncomfortable than the Bilstein/Eibach setup. I've driven one too and it was not my liking.

It is uncomfortable if I'm honest.
It wasn't bad on the track though.

[jenad]

If you check the link http://www.akgmotorsport.com/e30products.html

They have weldable bracktes.

The M3 ARB is only 19mm in diameter. Connecting links are the same as used by a lot of other BMW. Shown here:

http://de.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/31351134582/