Ive got a 323 auto and i think the gearbox is on its way out??? When i accelerate it revs but hardly moves, like a slipping clutch in a manual. Ive never owned an auto before, and im not really sure how they work
Anyone know?
If i do need to get another gearbox, is it just 323 box's i have to use? or would a box from a 320/325 fit and work well?
Auto gearbox
Moderator: martauto
-
Scruffymurphy
- E30 Zone Regular
- Posts: 775
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:00 pm
- Location: Ireland
I'm not sure but check the autobox oil level. It could be low. I have a auto merc that used to rev and not change gear, turned out to be loosing oil. It did move though.
A slipping clutch feeling in an auto in normally the torque converter giving up.
Very early E30 autos had the 3 speed ZF 3HP22 box (painfully undergeared) whilst from late 1983 onwards they all have the vastly better ZF 4HP22.
Very early E30 autos had the 3 speed ZF 3HP22 box (painfully undergeared) whilst from late 1983 onwards they all have the vastly better ZF 4HP22.
Is the dipstick for the box the one nearest to the bulkhead? it looks like it goes down to the box anyway. Its a clear liquid on that dipstick, and its got plenty in it if so.
How would i find out for definate if it is the torque converter? ive never even heard of that if im honest haha. Mines an early 85 if that helps
Tari, what do you mean by switchable? im guessing its not as i dont know what that is hahaha
How would i find out for definate if it is the torque converter? ive never even heard of that if im honest haha. Mines an early 85 if that helps
Tari, what do you mean by switchable? im guessing its not as i dont know what that is hahaha
Yours will be a 4 speed box if its an '85.
Tired torque converters usually slip at higher road speeds (like a manual clutch slipping). When driving along you should feel the torque converter lock up between 50-55mph (basically it feels like an extra gear change) to give better economy when cruising.
If yours fails to do this in addition to the slipping, I'd put good money on the torque converter being knackered.
Tired torque converters usually slip at higher road speeds (like a manual clutch slipping). When driving along you should feel the torque converter lock up between 50-55mph (basically it feels like an extra gear change) to give better economy when cruising.
If yours fails to do this in addition to the slipping, I'd put good money on the torque converter being knackered.
Switchable auto was an option some E30's had and is easily identified by a switch on the centre console which allows you to choose sport or economy mode.walshc wrote:Tari, what do you mean by switchable? im guessing its not as i dont know what that is hahaha
Mine defo isnt switchable then.
As for the slipping feeling, it does it through all gears if i rev too much. I have to gently rev to gain speed. Where you can feel it change gear (normally at 2-3k in D from set off) it wont do it unless i let off the revs, it will just keep climbing up the rev guage and not really going any faster (sticking to about 20/25mph)
Really appreciating your help so far darkchild
As for the slipping feeling, it does it through all gears if i rev too much. I have to gently rev to gain speed. Where you can feel it change gear (normally at 2-3k in D from set off) it wont do it unless i let off the revs, it will just keep climbing up the rev guage and not really going any faster (sticking to about 20/25mph)
Really appreciating your help so far darkchild
I take it you checked it when all is warm and with the engine running mate ?walshc wrote:Is the dipstick for the box the one nearest to the bulkhead? it looks like it goes down to the box anyway. Its a clear liquid on that dipstick, and its got plenty in it if so.
Mart.
Only the E46 cab left now.
Just got too old.
Just got too old.
Hm, guessing broken clutch plates, does it slip when you drive? Or just at low rpm? Im thinking it could be dirty filter in the autobox. Changing clutch plates on the gears isn't easy so you better hope it's the filter, that should take an hour to change.
If it's the clutch plates it will not be long until it won't move at all.
How is it in revers?
If it's the clutch plates it will not be long until it won't move at all.
How is it in revers?
Yeah it slips all through different speeds if i accelerate hard enough. For example, theres a road i use that goes from a 30 to 50, when i get into the 50 zone and if i accelerate quite hard, the revs will climb to 3k+ but the speed will only slowly rise, untill it feels like as if the gearing has caught up???? if that makes sense?. Its exactly like a slipping clutch in a manual
Where abouts is the filter? i havent bought a haynes book of lies for it yet
Reverse is ok, i dont really rev much though in reverse, just let tickover move the car backwards. Although, last week when i put it in reverse, it was as if it was still in neutral/park, i could rev it without it moving at all, then it juddered and i heard a thud noise (sounded as if it came from the rear though, diff maybe???) and it started working then, its been sweet in reverse since.
Cheers Mart, ill check again tomorrow with the car running
Where abouts is the filter? i havent bought a haynes book of lies for it yet
Reverse is ok, i dont really rev much though in reverse, just let tickover move the car backwards. Although, last week when i put it in reverse, it was as if it was still in neutral/park, i could rev it without it moving at all, then it juddered and i heard a thud noise (sounded as if it came from the rear though, diff maybe???) and it started working then, its been sweet in reverse since.
Cheers Mart, ill check again tomorrow with the car running
I'm afraid your clutch plates is gone :S You can try to change the filter there is a small chance it could be that but iam 80% sure it's the clutch.
When the car feels like it's slipping on the gears it's usually the clutch plates, but it could also be the filter, althou the only time i have experienced filter fault is when the gearbox wont go at all, and it makes a strange noise, but maybe the filter is full and it sucks a little oil in but not enaugh to stay in gear. If you have had the car for many years and have never changed the filter it could be time todo so. Filter doesn't cost much, overhauling the gearbox does, this isn't something you can do by yourself.....
Althou if the gearbox works when you give it allot of rpm then maybe it sucks enaugh oil thru that filty filter and it can work.
The filter is easy to change. (Takes around 1 hour for a newbie)
Jack the car up, from there you can see the oil pan of the gearbox, unscrew the screw at the back, that will empty the oil, keep a bucket under it ;)
Put the screw back. Around the oil pan there is several bolts, unscrew them all and the oil pan comes right out, from there you can see a big black plate, should stay on with 3 bolts, torx i think, unscrew them and the filter is loose. Put in a new one and assembly it the same way you took it apart. Remember the O-ring on the top of the filter!!!...
Refill oil, start the car let it go a little wam, put it in P N R D 3 2 1 2 3 D R N P, let it stay a few sec in each gear, then check the level and refill if needed.
When the car feels like it's slipping on the gears it's usually the clutch plates, but it could also be the filter, althou the only time i have experienced filter fault is when the gearbox wont go at all, and it makes a strange noise, but maybe the filter is full and it sucks a little oil in but not enaugh to stay in gear. If you have had the car for many years and have never changed the filter it could be time todo so. Filter doesn't cost much, overhauling the gearbox does, this isn't something you can do by yourself.....
Althou if the gearbox works when you give it allot of rpm then maybe it sucks enaugh oil thru that filty filter and it can work.
The filter is easy to change. (Takes around 1 hour for a newbie)
Jack the car up, from there you can see the oil pan of the gearbox, unscrew the screw at the back, that will empty the oil, keep a bucket under it ;)
Put the screw back. Around the oil pan there is several bolts, unscrew them all and the oil pan comes right out, from there you can see a big black plate, should stay on with 3 bolts, torx i think, unscrew them and the filter is loose. Put in a new one and assembly it the same way you took it apart. Remember the O-ring on the top of the filter!!!...
Refill oil, start the car let it go a little wam, put it in P N R D 3 2 1 2 3 D R N P, let it stay a few sec in each gear, then check the level and refill if needed.
Should be red yes ;) Try a filter change, you would also need to flush it.
I found this on a forum.
Auto
To change and flush your auto oil perfectly you should go to your mechanic and have the auto flushed with a flushing machine, then have the pan dropped and change the filter and oil topped up again.
However, if this to too costly, I can show you a much cheaper way that will be for better than just not changing or changing oil without flushing.
With the auto warm, remove the bottom hose in to the radiator and fit a plastic tube on to the bottom hose to the radiator, put the other end or the hose in to a 20 Litre bucket in front of the car.
Start the engine and the auto’s oil pump will pump all the old ATF fluid in to the 20 Litre bucket, flick through the gears until the vehicle doesn’t try and move, now you have most of the oil from the auto in the 20 Litre bucket.
Only idle the car to do this.
Refill your auto with new oil and repeat the process about 3 times or until the oil comes out of the auto clean, or the same colour as it’s going in.
You just flushed your auto without jacking the car up.
I found this on a forum.
Auto
To change and flush your auto oil perfectly you should go to your mechanic and have the auto flushed with a flushing machine, then have the pan dropped and change the filter and oil topped up again.
However, if this to too costly, I can show you a much cheaper way that will be for better than just not changing or changing oil without flushing.
With the auto warm, remove the bottom hose in to the radiator and fit a plastic tube on to the bottom hose to the radiator, put the other end or the hose in to a 20 Litre bucket in front of the car.
Start the engine and the auto’s oil pump will pump all the old ATF fluid in to the 20 Litre bucket, flick through the gears until the vehicle doesn’t try and move, now you have most of the oil from the auto in the 20 Litre bucket.
Only idle the car to do this.
Refill your auto with new oil and repeat the process about 3 times or until the oil comes out of the auto clean, or the same colour as it’s going in.
You just flushed your auto without jacking the car up.
clutches are probably shot.. i just broke mine today too. its doing the EXACT same thing lol 
dunno if i will convert it to manual or just replace the box with another auto.
dunno if i will convert it to manual or just replace the box with another auto.
WMMotorsports
Great post 
cheers dude 
Do you know where abouts the oil filler cap is?
Im going to flush it and change the filter next week
*edit* Aimed at ProToZyKo
cheers dude Do you know where abouts the oil filler cap is?
Im going to flush it and change the filter next week
*edit* Aimed at ProToZyKo
Last edited by walshc on Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
damn autos 
my ATF was changed at 99k and the car is at 117 now so 99.9% sure the clutches are gone on mine.
good luck to the OP. ill keep my fingers crossed a filter change will cure ur problems but personally i wouldnt hold my breath.
good luck to the OP. ill keep my fingers crossed a filter change will cure ur problems but personally i wouldnt hold my breath.
WMMotorsports
Are the clutches and torque converter one and the same? im baffled with how autos work 
I presume it would be easier and cheaper to just change the box if it is that which has gone?
Will i just have to use a box specifically from a 323 if i do have to change the box? or just any 4hp-22 box?
I presume it would be easier and cheaper to just change the box if it is that which has gone?
Will i just have to use a box specifically from a 323 if i do have to change the box? or just any 4hp-22 box?
No. converter and the auto itself is two different things. Inside the auto there are several clutches, each one does different things, first you have a clutch, this one makes the car go forward, easy to fix. Then you have B clutch this is for revers and Hi gear, easy to change.
Then we go abit more advanced, C is intermediate clutch, D is pure revers, E is overrun, F is overdrive, changing any of these you would need to take the auto apart.
A and B is easy and cheap to fix, but you would need to speak with an expert to know if it could be only these clutches or more that is broke.
Converter only gives the power i think, so if the auto is lazy converter has gone bad.
You can't just get a box from a 323 or an 4hp-22, you need the 10 digit number on the side of the auto, it need to be exactly the same to ensure perfect fit.
Problem is that you never know if the new box you get is any better than your old, look at the oil, if it's filty then stay away.
Iam currently trying to fix my auto myself, sliping revers, going to change A and B clutch, hope it works for me, i know B clutch is all gone, the auto need both B and D to go in revers ;)
Then we go abit more advanced, C is intermediate clutch, D is pure revers, E is overrun, F is overdrive, changing any of these you would need to take the auto apart.
A and B is easy and cheap to fix, but you would need to speak with an expert to know if it could be only these clutches or more that is broke.
Converter only gives the power i think, so if the auto is lazy converter has gone bad.
You can't just get a box from a 323 or an 4hp-22, you need the 10 digit number on the side of the auto, it need to be exactly the same to ensure perfect fit.
Problem is that you never know if the new box you get is any better than your old, look at the oil, if it's filty then stay away.
Iam currently trying to fix my auto myself, sliping revers, going to change A and B clutch, hope it works for me, i know B clutch is all gone, the auto need both B and D to go in revers ;)
Well, the slipping has hit its final point now, the car wont move forward at all, just sits there revving its little ass off, in 1,2,3 and D
Not managed to find a specialist yet
You think its worth changing 'A' clutch? seems to be that, going off that info
You fixed yours yet? how difficult was it? will the haynes book of lies list everything ill need to change 'A' clutch?
Will i have to split the box? or will it be similar to changing a manual clutch?
Sorry for the abbondance of noobified questions
Not managed to find a specialist yet
You think its worth changing 'A' clutch? seems to be that, going off that info
You fixed yours yet? how difficult was it? will the haynes book of lies list everything ill need to change 'A' clutch?
Will i have to split the box? or will it be similar to changing a manual clutch?
Sorry for the abbondance of noobified questions
Right, so i went in my local motorfactors today to order the correct clutch, to which he looked me dead in the eye and said autos dont have clutches 
i described what ive read on here and he just said that my problem would be the torque converter.
Does he have no clue, or am i on the receiving end of a joke here?
Anyone got a part number for what id need?
Danke
i described what ive read on here and he just said that my problem would be the torque converter.Does he have no clue, or am i on the receiving end of a joke here?
Anyone got a part number for what id need?
Danke