I drove it too work and left the lights on
my 88 325 wont start.....again!
Moderator: martauto
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
Hello friendly e30 owners! I am new so all help is appreciated. First off i've got a 88 325is with the m20b25 which runs motronic management. I have had the car bout 3 months, most of which it hasn't worked! However, recently it has been working a treat and i've been loving it. My problem is that it now doesn't start (AGAIN!!).
I drove it too work and left the lights on
but when I came to leave work i was relieved that it started! It ran fine for about 20 seconds ish and then just died and hasn't started since. I have fully charged the battery and stuck a bit more juice in it as it was low. This had no effect, it will still just turn over but not even hint at firing. I cant hear the fuel pump prime with the ignition on(which it did do before) or when it is turning over but if I jump the relay you can hear the fuel pump. I have tried another ecu, but this didnt help, as i had a spare one from previous trials and tribulations! Any ideas? Ta, Ben
I drove it too work and left the lights on
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
Forgot to mention, I cheked the fuse and had the auto sparky at my work test the relay (which is nearly new) amd all ok!?!
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
Haven't tested so can't say for sure but thnik so as it ran fine before it just died. Should all be ok as replaced plugs, leads, rotor arm and position/speed sensor not long ago (2 months ar very most). Also had coil tested and it was ok and checked dzzy cap and all ok!
- Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member

- Posts: 49358
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Check for power at the + terminal of the ignition coil, with the ignition turned on.
You may have triggered some long forgotten alarm/immobiliser by starting the car with a nearly flat battery.
You may have triggered some long forgotten alarm/immobiliser by starting the car with a nearly flat battery.
I learned something a week ago about the white relay next to the fuel pump relay (2x orange 1x white) which sits under the plastic shroud next to the airfilterbox.
These relays were back in the day when the E30 and other BMW's with the M20 were the latest and greatest replace by the garage due to them being faulty.
The symptoms are sudden engine failure and or difficulty to start. Bascially this relay pulls the power to the ecu, and so if it doesn't pull the injectors don't open and hence the engine doesn't get any fuel.
The mechanic that demonstrated it for me took a screwdriver and while the 325iX, which was having start problems, was tiking over he tappet the relay with the screwdrivers handle and every time he tappet the relay the engine would die and then come alive again.
So if in your search, try the white relay. Bosch and others make similar relay, if the function principle and the pin configuration is the same, it should work fine, just don't new old stock
All these electronic gremlines make me wanna get a Diesel with mechanical injection. Nothing can stop such an engine other than lack of fuel.
These relays were back in the day when the E30 and other BMW's with the M20 were the latest and greatest replace by the garage due to them being faulty.
The symptoms are sudden engine failure and or difficulty to start. Bascially this relay pulls the power to the ecu, and so if it doesn't pull the injectors don't open and hence the engine doesn't get any fuel.
The mechanic that demonstrated it for me took a screwdriver and while the 325iX, which was having start problems, was tiking over he tappet the relay with the screwdrivers handle and every time he tappet the relay the engine would die and then come alive again.
So if in your search, try the white relay. Bosch and others make similar relay, if the function principle and the pin configuration is the same, it should work fine, just don't new old stock
All these electronic gremlines make me wanna get a Diesel with mechanical injection. Nothing can stop such an engine other than lack of fuel.
Why is there not enough time to do it right, but allways enough time to fix the errors - I borrowed that, just so reallistic in my line of work.
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
Thanks for the tip! I will try it but both the fuel pump relay and that white (ecu?) relay are pretty much new. Both o.e. BMW though. Going to tow the car home this afternoon and try these things. Cheers for the tips! Ben
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
Right, I just tried a few of the suggestions mentioned and have found that I do have 12v at the green wire to the coil (with the ignition on) and I'm pretty sure that its not the relay as i swapped in the horn relay with no effect.
Also I bridged out the fuel pump relay from underneath and tried to start it with the relay in and nothing happend. I could hear the fuel pump running though. I think the injectos aren't opening for some reason. There was also fuel weeping from the pipe to the fuel rail. Evidence of fuel was present at the return line. Is this ok?
The white relay seems ok too, as (with ignition on) the i.c.v. is buzzing with it in and not when it is out.
I'm stumped! Any got any ideas?? Ta, again, Ben
Also I bridged out the fuel pump relay from underneath and tried to start it with the relay in and nothing happend. I could hear the fuel pump running though. I think the injectos aren't opening for some reason. There was also fuel weeping from the pipe to the fuel rail. Evidence of fuel was present at the return line. Is this ok?
The white relay seems ok too, as (with ignition on) the i.c.v. is buzzing with it in and not when it is out.
I'm stumped! Any got any ideas?? Ta, again, Ben
- Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member

- Posts: 49358
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Hmmmf! I answered this post about an hour ago! Where's my reply gone??
Anyway, if the fuel pump relay doesn't pull in when the engine is turning, the chances are that the ECU doesn't know it is turning. If it doesn't know it's turning, there won't be any sparks either, so lay a spark plug on the rocker cover, still connected to its lead, and crank the engine.
You should see a spark every second turn of the crank.
If you don't, the most likely suspect is the crank position sensor, (as I said about an hour ago) and town325i has also said.
Disconnect it (under the diagnostic plug), and check the resistance between the two pins nearest to the lead. Should be around 540 ohms.
Anyway, if the fuel pump relay doesn't pull in when the engine is turning, the chances are that the ECU doesn't know it is turning. If it doesn't know it's turning, there won't be any sparks either, so lay a spark plug on the rocker cover, still connected to its lead, and crank the engine.
You should see a spark every second turn of the crank.
If you don't, the most likely suspect is the crank position sensor, (as I said about an hour ago) and town325i has also said.
Disconnect it (under the diagnostic plug), and check the resistance between the two pins nearest to the lead. Should be around 540 ohms.
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
Ok. I will try that but it should be good as, again, I have very recently replaced this part. I'll double check (did have a quick glance at it today to see) it hasn't moved but I know its connected as i checked that!
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
Hello again. The plot thickens as i have tested to see if I'm getting spark and I'm not.
Also, I tested the resistance of the crank position / speed sensor and I could not get a reading. I tired all combinations of the pins and got the car sparky at work to confirm I had the multi meter set right. Any one know of any other ways to test this sensor as it is only a few months old and want to be sure its that before I try and claim a new one!
Any other suggestions as to what else it could be?
Thanks again for the input! Ben
Also, I tested the resistance of the crank position / speed sensor and I could not get a reading. I tired all combinations of the pins and got the car sparky at work to confirm I had the multi meter set right. Any one know of any other ways to test this sensor as it is only a few months old and want to be sure its that before I try and claim a new one!
Any other suggestions as to what else it could be?
Thanks again for the input! Ben
- Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member

- Posts: 49358
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
If all pins of the CPS are open circuit it is dud! A correct resistance doesn't prove that a sensor is good, but open circuit definitely proves that it is dud.
The lead from the sensor to its socket (should) run through a plastic channel behind the water pump pulley. Check that something hasn't come adrift here, and allowed the rim of the pulley to cut through the wire.
(P.S: I've been changing a CPS this morning, on an M40, and the 'resistance' was between the centre pin and the one furthest from the lead, not the one closest to the lead, as I posted above.)
The lead from the sensor to its socket (should) run through a plastic channel behind the water pump pulley. Check that something hasn't come adrift here, and allowed the rim of the pulley to cut through the wire.
(P.S: I've been changing a CPS this morning, on an M40, and the 'resistance' was between the centre pin and the one furthest from the lead, not the one closest to the lead, as I posted above.)
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
OK. Looks like thats the problem then! I tried all the various different pin combinations, I think! Do you know if it matters which is positive and negative on the multi meter? Would i just get a minus figure?
I traced the route the lead takes, as what you descibed is what had happend to the old one, and routed it away from the pulleys when i changed it.
Looks like I'll have to dig out that reciept! Anyone else known one to just die like that?
Ben
I traced the route the lead takes, as what you descibed is what had happend to the old one, and routed it away from the pulleys when i changed it.
Looks like I'll have to dig out that reciept! Anyone else known one to just die like that?
Ben
- Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member

- Posts: 49358
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Positive and negative of the meter leads doesn't matter in the slightest, but if you move a piece of steel near the face of the sensor, the resistance should vary wildly.
A failing CPS typically allows a car to start OK, but begin to misfire after several minutes, and eventually cut out altogether. The missfires are reflected in the rev counter reading, by it dropping to zero instantly when the engine cuts.
The one I changed this afternoon (assuming my diagnosis is correct) would allow the car in question to start and run faultlessly for about half an hour, before misfiring, and then cutting out. Allowing the engine to cool for ten minutes would give you a couple more minutes of running.
A failing CPS typically allows a car to start OK, but begin to misfire after several minutes, and eventually cut out altogether. The missfires are reflected in the rev counter reading, by it dropping to zero instantly when the engine cuts.
The one I changed this afternoon (assuming my diagnosis is correct) would allow the car in question to start and run faultlessly for about half an hour, before misfiring, and then cutting out. Allowing the engine to cool for ten minutes would give you a couple more minutes of running.
- dolphingreysport
- E30 Zone Newbie

- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm
But a totally bust one wouldn't allow the car to start, right? As it isn't sending any signal rather than sending a weakening signal.
- Brianmoooore
- E30 Zone Team Member

- Posts: 49358
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
If it's open circuit then the engine won't even try to start.


