Head Gasket... Part 2, the Fix! edit: Running again!

[Oggy]

Hello all, I thought i'd write this with the hope that I can get some help and advice, and maybe in doing so, help others!

So, following on from my last post explaining how my head gasket has failed, or my head cracked, along with suspected water pump failure, i've begun to strip it down.

Unfortunately I was stopped pretty soon after starting, due to having lost my deep sockets, meaning I couldn't get the inlet manifold off.

However, I did get the radiator, hoses, air filter etc out, and the rocker cover off to have a look.

As it's been rediculously cold today also, so production has been slow

Please excuse the poor photographs, the light was bad, and I was just taking some quick snaps!







Hopefully on Thursday with another day off, and the correct tools borrowed, I should be able to get the head off to inspect.

Now this has given me some time to think, and I'm wondering to what extent I should be rebuilding the engine.

It's a 1989 325i Touring, which has done 160,000 miles, and up until 2003ish, had full service history.

I'll be ordering a full gasket set, and head bolts obviously, and water pump, but what else should I be considering replacing?

There are going to be quite a few hoses i'll replace, due to them being brittle and damaged during removal.


What do I do, keep it when i've fixed it? Or flog it and buy an E36 track toy with a 3.5 V8 off my friend?

When fixed, it'll be used for drifting, and i've always loved the E30s character, hence buying this, my second E30.

In order to make it competitive, it'd need coilover suspension, an E36 M3 steering rack conversion, and a working engine. At present, it's just slammed nice and low on springs, which will do for the time being.

The E36 in question has brand new coilover suspension, new brakes all round, buckets, harnesses, custom cash, thoroughly stripped and ready to abuse. But it's an E36 What to do?!

Oggy

[town325i]

you can take the head off without taking the inlet manifold off and you can swap it over on a bench

[Jhonno]

E36 sounds cool

[murran]

competative? you entering it in the bdc? if your just doing the odd practice day then the set up you have is fine until you "out grow it". what stage are you at with your skidding? with drifting you learn more if you progress at the same rate as your car. ie getting straight in a 400bhp fully set up car will not teach you to be a good drifter.

if your confident in your mechanical skills when repairing it, then keep it. if not, sell it when youve "fixed" it.

[bodger]

cambelt, tensioner, alternator belt and pas belt also

[warner325]

keep the e30 mate they are alot better built then the e36 as ive had 3 e30s 325i and only 2 e36 i always go back.Plus a e30 is a better track day car then the e36.

[Oggy]

Thanks for the replies people,

town325i, If I'm doing the job, i'm doing it properly, and that means I'll be chemically cleaning and painting the inlet and rocker cover before they go back on, and it just makes life easier having it off and out of the way!

Murran, I won't be entering anything straight off, due to lack of pennies, but this isn't my first RWD car, and I was quite comfortable sliding my 350bhp E30 Cosworth when I owned that, but then again, I didn't drive it with the intention of drifting as such.

With regards to my mechanical skills, yes, I'm confident I'll do a good job, I've done engine swaps and such before.

I should point out that the E36s V8 is only a standard Land Rover unit at present, and as such, only produces circa 180bhp and 200lb/ft torque, so It's not much more than the 325, but has a lot more potential I thought?

Bodger, I wasn't sure whether to do cambelt and tensioner, as they were done recently, but If i'm to keep it, I may aswell just for piece of mind. Also, you're reasonably local to me, I don't suppose you can recommend any engineering places that do head skims at all?

Also, whilst i've got the head out to rebuild, are there any other mods to be suggested that don't cost the earth?

Shouldn't be too much longer til it's back on the road!

[Morat]

Tuning a Rover V8 wouldn't be my first choice for a route to big power. Even a full race Tuscan series V8 is 380ish bhp and thats a 4litre, flat crank, dry sump 8k redline lunatic unit with costs to match (7mpg average). turbo your M20, its cheaper

[daimlerman]

3/8th drive socket with an extension will get you the inlet manifold nuts,do not forget the breather pipe under the manifold,push it down to release.You will need to take the thermostat housing off as well,as the manifold /fuel rail fouls it.Certainly you should spend £10 on a cambelt,they seem to object to being re-used.Unless you have an obvious wear ring at the top of the bores,there is no reason to do more than re-furb the head.New valve guides and stem seals should be all you need,the exhaust valves may benifit from replacing if the stems show signs of wear.When you come to re-fit the head,chop the heads of a couple of your old head bolts and mount them a couple of turns into the block,then you can slide the head down them and reduce the risk of damaging your freshly skimmed joining face on the locating dowels..

[Oggy]

Cracked cylinder head?





That clean line runs the entire length of the inlet side of the head, when wiped, it looks no different to the rest, but how can I tell for sure?

[daimlerman]

Pressure test at your local engine shop.

[warner325]

if it is cracked they int that exspence second hand of ebay or you can buy a recon on from gsf for around £600 with new valves/lifters but dont worry its common e30 problam let me know what you do regard scott

[E30BeemerLad]

If he hasn't sold it already then get in touch with Trevor forum name B7, he has a mint 325 head which is complete and would be a cost effective bolt on repair

[noney82]

i just used a extention bar also to get mine off

[leeparkes]

for the sake of £30 to get it pressure tested,
M20 heads are prone to crack around cylinder 3-4-5
if the car can still be started,run it with the rocker cover off and keep a close eye on the 'crack' you have found,(you will see bubbling water)
if the car cant be started your only option really is a pressure test
the head can be welded as a bodge but not recomended

[Struggle]

just to let you guys know that oggy has drained all the water and is well into the strip down stage.

now i looked at the head when we were stripping it and it does look like a hairline crack. we wiped the oil away from the head and we could see no sign of any crack. so if it is there then its hard to detect by eye.

we are planning on removing the head in the next couple of days without taking the car to a machine shop for a pressure test.

the question: IF we remove the head and take it to a machine shop could they quickly and easily tell us if it was cracked or would they need the engine as a whole for a comp test???

help is much appreciated.

ta

[E30BeemerLad]

they just need the head for the pressure test, speak to the machine shop you plan on taking to as to how they would prefer you to bring it to them, i.e. with the cam still in or out etc.

[leeparkes]

when i had one pressure tested i gave them the head complete with cam,rockers etc..
they had it one day and when id got it back it was in bits,the crack was on one of the cam journals,
they welded it and machined it for £40,it lasted me 6months and was still fine when i sold the car.

[B7]

If he hasn't sold it already then get in touch with Trevor forum name B7, he has a mint 325 head which is complete and would be a cost effective bolt on repair

Thanks for the heads up. 'fraid it's sold though.

[Oggy]

If he hasn't sold it already then get in touch with Trevor forum name B7, he has a mint 325 head which is complete and would be a cost effective bolt on repair

Thanks for the heads up. 'fraid it's sold though.

I was one step ahead also, just wish you still had it!

[Oggy]

when i had one pressure tested i gave them the head complete with cam,rockers etc..
they had it one day and when id got it back it was in bits,the crack was on one of the cam journals,
they welded it and machined it for £40,it lasted me 6months and was still fine when i sold the car.

I'm not sure i'm too keen on the idea of having an alloy head welded though, not when it'll be taking some abuse!

I'll have to see, I don't fancy having to rebuild it again for the same reason in a few months, but I don't have an unlimited budget either.

I'll just have to get it off and pressure tested, see what the crack is! (pun intended)

[daimlerman]

Re-building the head is going to cost you in the region of £350,by the time you factor in new head bolts,gaskets,valves/guides etc.It is madness not to spend an extra £25 on a pressure/crack test before commiting to any other machining work.

[Oggy]

Re-building the head is going to cost you in the region of £350,by the time you factor in new head bolts,gaskets,valves/guides etc.It is madness not to spend an extra £25 on a pressure/crack test before commiting to any other machining work.

Just out of interest, where the do you buy your parts from?

I only ask because... £350?!

Try closer to £100

But yes, I shall be getting a pressure test done prior to rebuilding, I just need to find somewhere local that can do it for me.

[daimlerman]

Re-building the head is going to cost you in the region of £350,by the time you factor in new head bolts,gaskets,valves/guides etc.It is madness not to spend an extra £25 on a pressure/crack test before commiting to any other machining work.

Just out of interest, where the do you buy your parts from?

I only ask because... £350?!

Try closer to £100

But yes, I shall be getting a pressure test done prior to rebuilding, I just need to find somewhere local that can do it for me.

You are doing well,head bolts £15,gaskets £45 skim,pressure test replace valve guides £180,new valves £12 each.... thought I had a good deal

[town325i]

Thanks for the replies people,

town325i, If I'm doing the job, i'm doing it properly, and that means I'll be chemically cleaning and painting the inlet and rocker cover before they go back on, and it just makes life easier having it off and out of the way!

you didnt read all i said did you i said when its on a bench you can take the inlet manifold off i find it easier that way and as for doing the job properly it in your opinion i no my ways and i was just sugesting something that may of helped you .

[leeparkes]

It depends how much time/skills you have.
as you are on a budget you can pick a decent M20/b25 complete engine for the cost of a head repair/replacement
im sure a zoners got one for sale in his sig,£150,(high compresion too)
then you can remove the head and put it on your engine,
or put the whole lump in(no head gasket/bolts/presure test to worry about)
just a thought!

[Oggy]

Thanks for the replies people,

town325i, If I'm doing the job, i'm doing it properly, and that means I'll be chemically cleaning and painting the inlet and rocker cover before they go back on, and it just makes life easier having it off and out of the way!

you didnt read all i said did you i said when its on a bench you can take the inlet manifold off i find it easier that way and as for doing the job properly it in your opinion i no my ways and i was just sugesting something that may of helped you .

Hey bud, sorry, I didn't intend for it to sound offensive, I thank you for your suggestion, but I didn't quite understand what you meant evidentily, I've now got it off and it's all good.

Thanks,

Oggy

[Oggy]

It depends how much time/skills you have.
as you are on a budget you can pick a decent M20/b25 complete engine for the cost of a head repair/replacement
im sure a zoners got one for sale in his sig,£150,(high compresion too)
then you can remove the head and put it on your engine,
or put the whole lump in(no head gasket/bolts/presure test to worry about)
just a thought!

Ooo!

Would said zoner please step up?

That'd be a great option!

Cheers fella

[leeparkes]

It depends how much time/skills you have.
as you are on a budget you can pick a decent M20/b25 complete engine for the cost of a head repair/replacement
im sure a zoners got one for sale in his sig,£150,(high compresion too)
then you can remove the head and put it on your engine,
or put the whole lump in(no head gasket/bolts/presure test to worry about)
just a thought!

Ooo!

Would said zoner please step up?

That'd be a great option!

Cheers fella

its zaust who has one

[Oggy]

Thanks Lee, I've PM'd him.

Right, outside to brave the cold and whip the head off!

[Oggy]

I have concluded I am in desperate need of a Haynes manual.

Does anybody know where I might find information online regarding the removal of the cambelt and water pump etc, in order to remove the cylinder head?

I've tried to find a tutorial or workshop manual online, but the one I'd found the other day, appears to be down now

I'm getting fed up with how slow things are moving! I want to be back driving!

[Oggy]

Does anyone have the diagram detailing the order in which I should be removing headbolts please?

I know it starts from the outside with 14 being top right I think, followed by 13 bottom left?

Cheers

[Speedtouch]

This thread contains useful advice on it all:
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 69&start=0

also:
http://e30world.com/engine/BMW-E30-timi ... water-pump

[Oggy]

Thanks for those, I'd already found the e30world.com one, but http://www.angelfire.com/blues2/bimmer/ which I found through your e30zone link has some nice detail!

Fortunately for me, I have brilliant friends, one of whom has sorted me a new water pump and Haynes manual today!

With a bit of luck, now I have the manual, there should be a few less questions.

The only thing I'm currently still wondering, and the reason i've not gone any further today, when i've set TDC, removed the head, and re-fit, how do I then set the top pulley (camshaft) back to TDC correctly? As all the tutorials i've read suggest that you should never touch the pulleys after TDC has been set? This is obviously impossible with head removal for rebuilding?

Because of my uncertainty and inability to find any head removal guides, not wishing to destroy my engine, i've left it with the timing belt still in place, but everything else removed ready to go.

I need to be driving again soon!

[leeparkes]

you can do what you want with the head once its off (turning)
there is 2 timing marks,one on the crank(visible when you take the toothed pulley off)
theres one on the cam pulley
line these up when puting the head back on,but turn the crank back a fraction to take the piston down a touch so the valves dont hit the piston
once the head is on line both marks up then put the cam belt back on
turn the engine over "by hand" and see if the marks continue to line up,
remember though 2 full turns of the crank equals one turn of the cam!
if you get stuck,just post up