First E30 - 316i Touring Rescue - (Update: Now MOT'd!)

[iDemonix]

Hmm, I'll leave the weird LED/alarm thing for now, but will aim to remove it at some point. If it works for now I'll just leave it as there are more important bits to poke at first to make sure the car is worth saving.

My back is in pieces, need to see a physio, so I'm sat inside trying to sum up the energy to go and get the battery out the car >.<

[iDemonix]

Right, it's on the charge, although it's an Optimate 4 which is more suited to smaller (i.e. motorcycle) batteries, but we'll see if it works.

I'll probably end up replacing the battery anyway. I don't think I'll relocate it to the boot for now, especially as where it would sit has rust, so could someone recommend me a good battery that'll fit under the bonnet? Bonus points if I can pick it up from EuroCarParts/Halfrauds or somewhere local to Didcot.

Currently using:

[Brianmoooore]

Why would you want to relocate the battery to the boot???

[iDemonix]

From a load of reading it seems pretty common to shift some weight to the rear of the car and enable a bigger battery size to be fitted.

[ross_jsy]

Why do you need a bigger battery?

Personally I like batteries in the boot, but both my e30's are 2 door 6 pots so it is standard.

[Brianmoooore]

Only reason to move the battery to the boot of a touring is if you need the space at the front for something else, usually as a result of a change of engine type. Touring has near perfect weight distribution as it comes.
Front tray will take a 096 battery, which is big enough for any E30 application.

[iDemonix]

Cool, maybe a bigger engine one day so that's good to know, was planning to leave it in the bonnet for now anyway. Battery 'charged' but it's pissing it down today and tomorrow so might have to wait for the rain to let up before trying to coax some life out of the fuel pump.

[iDemonix]

Right, after some digging, found the relay where Brian said it'd be on the bulkhead.



Bridged it and immediately heard the fuel pump whirring. Let it whir along for about 20-30 seconds, then I cranked the engine for about 30 seconds, eventually pumping the throttle - nothing. Let it rest for a minute and removed the bridge, popped it back in 5 minutes later, repeat cranking, nothing.

Got down to the fuel pumps height and to me it sounds unhealthy. I have no idea how a good fuel pump should sound as my bikes are gravity fed and my mini's was mechanical. Here's a clip of it with the bridge in place (also if it makes a difference there's apparently around 10L of fuel in there):

Here is how the fuel pump sounds:



I reckon, by the amount of these weird shell-like things, that something at some point was living in here:



Pulled up the carpet in the rear, there's a bit of rust around the seatbelt mounts annoyingly, but I'm hoping I can dremel it off with a wire wheel and kurust it:




I spent 20 minutes cleaning out all of the rain channels as much as I could, then I lathered all the rust on the tailgate, bonnet frame, arches, etc with ACF-50 which I now need more of. The rust is already here to stay but no time like the present to try and stop it from spreading.

Questions!

Fuel pump - it's clearly on the drivers side by the noise, under the inspection panel. The carpet is proving a pain, do I need to remove the rear seats completely to get proper access? Also there's a panel on both sides. I've read that there is essentially two tanks, but one pump?

Fuel pump replacement, EuroCarParts have two: one with and one without assembly:



These seem a little pricey, does anyone have an alternative supplier for them (that isn't 2nd hand)? There are plenty on eBay, but just worried it's a case of "get what you pay for"?



Finally, answers on a postcard please, what is this thing? I found it, loose, lying in front of the battery:



Thanks for reading, sorry for all the questions - there are going to be hundreds more. Hopefully your answers will help other idiots like me in future - I appreciate all (well, most) answers!

[ravstar13]

The 'thing' is to keep the battery in place, should have a bolt that goes through it and screws in and holds the lip at the bottom of battery in place.

I have changed the pump before and yes it is under the seat, once you got it out of the way should be straight forward, im not overly experienced and got it done in an hour by really taking my time and being extra cautious.

[ravstar13]

also if I had mine without assembly, which then means I had to heatshrink the exposed wires for extra protection.

[iDemonix]

I can't heat shrink easily as I have no source of power in my garage, so maybe I should go for the full unit - which would give me good peace of mind anyway. An hour sounds alright, cheers for the advice - now can someone recommend a direct replacement for not-silly money?

[ravstar13]

Check your inbox

[Brianmoooore]

There's almost certainly nothing wrong with the pump you have. If you can hear it pumping, then it's working.
The rust, however, on your rear sear belt mounts, is large holes right through the metal, and would be a MOT test failure in the unlikely prospect that the tester found it.
Battery clamp in the boot rather than clamping the battery in place is also a MOT test failuire.

[iDemonix]

So looks like some fairly thick patching needs doing to the seatbelt mount area. Hmm.

[Brianmoooore]

Rusting there is caused by water getting between the thick metal of the mount bracket and the relatively thin metal of the shell. Cut a rectangular hole clear of the sides of the bracket, drill some 10mm holes in the patch where it covers the bracket, weld the patch in place with a continuous bead, then plug weld to the bracket through the 10mm holes.
You will find, almost without exception, that any 'small areas of surface rust' like that are actually holes that will need a patch.
All fairly easy stuff with a MIG welder and, in my case, an old E34 bonnet, that has provided the metal to repair about a dozen E30s, with still plenty left.

[iDemonix]

Cheers for advice Brian, I'm still fairly new to this so happy to learn.

Hopefully picking up a welder in the near future, but something structural like that would probably be left to someone more experienced, so I'll start searching around for a mobile welder. Or someone non-mobile and I'll trailer it to them and get them to do all the tricky welding in one go, as I have to borrow a trailer.

Out of interest, which MIG welder would you recommend for this kind of work?

[ross_jsy]

Yes. It's a horrid job to do though. It connects through to the rear beam area so applying any kind of protection to the back of the weld is very difficult

[iDemonix]

Sigh. Quite bad then, but if that's the worst of it then it can be done. I need to do some proper digging. In the interim is there anything worth applying to the rust to help in the meantime like kurust or lathering it in ACF-50 to stop it spreading further?

[ross_jsy]

How firm is it? If you jab it with a screwdriver can you get through it?

[iDemonix]

Will give it a poke later, hopefully it's not as bad as it looks.

Starting wise, I'm going to try and locate a fuel pipe in the engine bay and pull it off later, stick it in a drip tray and see if it pumps fuel towards the engine when cranking. If not, new pump, if it does then back to the drawing board.

[Brianmoooore]

If that's the worst rust you find, then you've got off lightly! That's an easy repair for anyone with a shed and a MIG welder.
I'd advise buying a second hand small professional welder rather than a new DIY type, so do your homework first. You can hire welding gas bottles these days for one initial payment, rather than the old monthly rent, and only pay for the very rarely needed refills.
ANY rust needs the screwdriver treatment, and be ruthless. It all needs to come out - every trace of it.

[pacerpete]

That will be the LEAST of the rust ! The rear arches are toast and there WILL be some front floor / A post action as well, at best Looking forward to the pics

[Brianmoooore]

Rear arches don't look pretty, but leaving a car parked for years always makes what rust there is look worse than it is, as surface rust creeps under the paint from existing spots.
Arches will need a considerable amount of work, but I wouldn't write them off totally just yet.

[darkchild]

Pete's just bitter he missed out on a 4 pot shooting brake!

Fairplay to the OP in attempting to bring it back from the dead. At least it's got a set of BBS to serve if the rot proves terminal.

[iDemonix]

Quick visit to EuroCarParts:



Discovered more rust



Well, the current plan is to get it driving, as that way I can move it around the car park etc as it's a bugger pushing it out the way of the garage door, and I'll feel better about the car!

So, goodies from ECP:

4x spark plugs (NGK) - fitted
Mann fuel filter - fitted
Mann air filter - not fitted
Mann oil filter - not fitted
New oil - not yet used

So I took off the old filter, which still had nice-smelling fuel in it, and replaced it with a new one. Before finishing fitment, I reconnected the battery and bridged the fuel pump relay. Fuel started coming out of the to-the-filter hose, so it seems the pump is ok!

Finished fitting the new fuel pump:







And then replaced the spark plugs:



Thought I might be on to a winner, but no joy. I bridged the relay for 30 seconds to let the fuel filter + pipe fill up and let some fuel reach the engine bay, after a short while could hear a noise in the engine bay that sounded like fuel moving around. Swapped the relay back in and cranked the car.

Spent 30 seconds or so cranking and after about 20 seconds, I thought I heard it try and catch a couple of times - might just be placebo, but did sound like it had 2 or 3 bangs. Let it rest a minute, retry for 30 seconds, this time with the relay bridged (just in case the relay isn't working) and pumping the throttle, still no joy. Kept trying until the battery was starting to drain and decided to bring it back inside for a charge whilst I make this post.

I'm going to go through the wiki of what to do next, but does anyone want to chip in any other suggestions? Fuel pump working, fuel filter replaced, spark plugs replaced, battery charged. The previous owner mentioned he thought the injectors were blocked as a year or two ago it would stall if you revved it too hard or put it under load (I think). Maybe they've finally completely packed up?

The rust I'm yet to find is terrifying me, but I'm starting to worry about the electrical system too... I have to turn the key, and if all the dash lights up, should be good, but that doesn't always happen, and I have to turn the key back and forth 5-6 times to get the lights to come on.

I think my E30 might be imported from the Caribbean as it loves to play the maracas:

[youtube][/youtube]
It was doing the above noise, and would only crank for 1 rev then stop, turned out to be loose battery terminals, tightened them, not as much clicking I think, but still doing it. Obviously a relay, and probably related to some shitty alarm/immobiliser - anyone got any ideas?

Thanks for all the help, pain in the arse but I'm quite enjoying working on a car again.

[iDemonix]

Just wondering - is it possible the clicking on the video is a relay that could prevent the car from starting? I don't know how aftermarket immobilisers are fitted, guessing they just cut a cable that is needed for the car to start, then either put a hidden switch in the wire, or put a relay on it and the relay is activated by something like my shit key fob?

[iDemonix]

It seems the immobiliser works but isn't having an effect on the relay.

[youtube][/youtube]

Weirdly, if I indicate or put the hazards on the clicking is normal (i.e. it clicks with the indicator flash, tick tock...) but as soon as I turn the hazards/indicators off, it starts going mental again - I did take a video of that, or I thought I did but must have fat fingered the iPhone...


Here's a video trying to start it with a relay bridge, ignore the 30 seconds dicking about, I forgot I took the immobiliser off the keyring and had to mess about.

[youtube][/youtube]

[ross_jsy]

Do the plugs have any fuel on them after attempting to start it?

[iDemonix]

Good call Ross, will check that tomorrow. The other half will be back so I'll have someone to crank the engine whilst I hold spark plugs against the engine to see if they're sparking. Will check for fuel smell etc whilst I'm there.

Looked at loads of diagrams and threads on the internet and can't figure out what the clicking is caused by...

[Speedtouch]

I would first check for a spark at the plugs. If you're getting sparks, remove the trunking to the TB and spray some brake/carb cleaner in there while someone cranks it over.

[iDemonix]

Didn't think about trying that, funny as I always start old bikes and MX bikes with a bit of carb cleaner in the air intake after being stood for a while.

Just remove the trunking all together?

Praying there's a spark!

[Speedtouch]

Yes, temporarily move the trunking to the TB out of the way (no need to remove it altogether!) and spray the carb/brake cleaner or 'startyabastard' in the TB while someone cranks the engine over.

This usually gets an engine that's been unused for ages up and running, and should eventually draw the normal fuel through.

[iDemonix]

[youtube][/youtube]

Well it runs, but only on carb cleaner! Coerced the missus in to spraying carb cleaner down the trunking, would fire up fairly easily on cleaner but just wouldn't carry on, tried about 5 times but didn't seem to catch - tried with the fuel relay bridged too.

Thinking before I start testing loads of stuff, might be worth just getting the injectors cleaned for the sake of it - they're bound to need doing anyway... anyone point me at a decent company that won't rob me?

[ross_jsy]

http://injectortune.co.uk are who you want

[Cloggy Saint]

Not sure if Injectortune are still operating. I've mailed them a few times times recently and not got any response.