Worlds longest Resto, my C2 2.7 19/3/18 Vent guage action

[Simon13]

I'll try all that Andy and no OBC is fitted, pikey clock stylee. Barrold will be here soon

[pacerpete]

I'll try all that Andy and no OBC is fitted, pikey clock stylee. Barrold will be here soon

Don't let him near the alarm or the dash wiring !

[TPS]

Barrold will be here soon

We're saved then!

[Simon13]

right 12.56 volts at the coil. plus the other test work out like you said Andy.

Barry is here hes tried and checked overything over and is suitable pissed/stumped too now.

[kitch]

Any further with this? Must be so frustrating!

[bss325i]

Well this is a weird one!

[Greeny]

Forgive my ignorance but does the M20 have hydraulic lifters?
it's just i was working on a Rover (head gasket funny old thing, and not mine) and after having the head skimmed and refitting the head it just wouldn't start and after a lot of investigation turns out the hydraulic lifters weren't operating, had to tow it for 5 miles (yes 5 miles!) in 2nd gear before it decided to fire.
Just thinking with yours being a fresh engine build you might have to tow it to get some descent oil feed to the cylinder head.
Just a thought.

[Speedtouch]

No hydraulic lifters on the M20.

It's not because of this, is it?

Simon13 said:

I've had to use the bronzits auto engine
loom because i can't find the f**king manual throttle body. It will run fine but the throttle position swith on autos uses a different plug to manuals. Not sure why but they both work the same as long as the plugs and TPS match.

[Simon13]

its still not going. well basically the autos have a different plug on the TPS. So the loom has a plug on it to suit. Manuals have a different plug. Both TPS's do the same thing but you obviously can't have one and the other. They have to match. But they both do the same thing. Ive had manual cars in the past where i've ended up with an auto engine loom and TPS. This is their only difference is the plugs.

Towing the c**t up the road with the B3 is becoming an attractive option!!

[Andyboy]

A weird one, but.....

Has it got a spark of any sort? If so, try cranking it with the fuel pump fuse out because it sounds like it could be flooding. If it coughs into life before dying again, that's it.

Have you tried Easy Start? Horrible stuff, but it determines if you have a spark.

If it's not sparking but you have a good coil, then the coil isn't being switched. That's crank sensor or the pulse signal sensor on the front plug lead - you sure they're plugged into the right sockets on the loom?

Is the king lead (coil to dizzy cap) good? Is the rotor new - I'd try another one and make sure it's pointing at No.1 plug lead contact when at TDC.

I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the auto loom and TPS, but I'm not sure. It's never a problem when doing an auto to manual conversion is it? The Bentley manual doesn't have an E30 Motronic 1.3 wiring diagram but I don't think the starter relay had anything to do with the ECU or coil.


Just had a thought...........I had to diagnose a non start on an E30 318i once, and it was the TDC sensor - I pulled the plug from the loom, and one of the two contacts in the plug end had dislocated and pushed itself out so it wasn't making contact.

[e30topless]

i have converted quite a few auto's to manual and retained the auto tps and engine loom it's never been a probem,

Si is it backfiring/popping trying at all ?

[fowler]

drop some oil in the bores si give it some lube and rotate by hand to get all in sync then try and start.
Stupid Q have you got all wiring correct and all earths are in place mate

[Simon13]

When the engine is at TDC and your looking at the crank sprocket the rotor arm is point roughly at 5 o'clock

Tbh the next step is easy start with the fuel pump relay out crank it over. if it fires or tries too then plug the relay back in quick! Its got spark 100% and its timed up correctly. I've checked it today again. One thing ive learn if you earth the plug on the rocker and take out the DME relay it won't spark. Plug in and crank hey theres a spark.

Barry has been here and re checked everything you can, timing, spark, fuel, compression test. You name it its all there.

If i had to place a bet i'd say its too much fuel. I'm trying to stay positive but when you try and check stuff and its right and it still won't go it p!sses you off alot. But maybe theres still a silly fault we've not noticed yet just got to work it out.

I reckon once it fires once we'll be away with the fairies and it will be ok. Its getting a hard time once it goes now!

[bss325i]

Today the following has been checked or swapped, all of which Simon has all ready done.

Cam and crank timing marks alignment ok
Coil resistance and power to it with ignition on and when cranking ok.
Good spark at the plugs, all plug leads checked to make sure they are in the correct order
Checked black cam disk for correct location.
Checked the cap that its centre brush and spring are ok.
Checked power to all injector plugs when cranking with a noid light.
Swapped the injector loom and injectors from refurbed one to known working ones
Swapped the new blue temp sensor for a know working one.
Swapped the plugs for ones that haven't been soaked in fuel
Removed all plugs, cranked engine over with both DME and fuel pump relays removed.
Carried out compression test and all cyls 200psi
Checked the crank sensor and pulse sensor plugs the right way round
Removed the cam cover to look what was going on when cranking and all was good.


No joy!

I suggested trying to crank it with the fuel pump relay removed, trying easy start and if it fires then stick the fuel pump relay back in and see if it runs.

I also suggested swapping the auto engine loom and TPS for manual ones.

Its got compression
The cam timings correct
Its got good spark in the correct order

It can only be fuel related

Simon has literally bolted everything on from a running engine and still no joy.

[Andyboy]

If the plugs are soaked in fuel, the injectors are doing their thing but it sounds just like a borked coolant temp switch that's gone open circuit (even though it isn't). Easy Start has to be the next step with the pump fuse out with a willing helper to dab the fuse back in to introduce it to 98RON.

[Simon13]

well theres only 95ron in the tank. But i'm off to get a can of "start ya barstard" is quite fitting 2moro after work.

Thing is we've gone cheque book on this whole engine and swapped out all the new bits today plugs, rotor, dizzy blue temp sensor. Only the short engine as such is new, everything else is off a working the bronzit!

It really does go to show that throwing money at car things doesn't always get results. Brain power is required at ALL times!

[e30topless]

Easy start is for diesels !

Si i feel your pain, hard to believe after all the blood sweat and tears/cash you have invested in this mill why isn't running like a champ?

i doubt the block /head is at fault the build pics look really good,
I like to think i know my way around an M20 but i'm stumped..
you got any pics of the engine bay ? could you take a few close up's of it fitted?

[gareth]

had to tow it for 5 miles (yes 5 miles!) in 2nd gear before it decided to fire.

wasn't this was it?
[youtube][/youtube]

Any joy with the can of 'start ya bastard' this evening?

[Greeny]

had to tow it for 5 miles (yes 5 miles!) in 2nd gear before it decided to fire.

wasn't this was it?
[youtube][/youtube]

Any joy with the can of 'start ya bastard' this evening?

Ha ha ha, no wasn't that particular one, looks like it had good oil pressure LOL!

[Simon13]

Won't go, tried some easy start earlier nothing. Just towed it to a hill near by, tried bumping it. Won't have it, even towed the c8nt up the road at 10mph with the B3 and all that managed was a massive backfire out the exhaust once with all the fuel in there.

F**king hopeless. I've had it for now it can go f**k itself piece of sh!t, you'd be better shovelling the thousands its cost to get it this far up your nose. At least you could say you've had a good time along the way not doing f**king private work after work and driving a million miles collecting all the parts and all the p!ssing about in a cold garage driveway to end up here. Throw me a f**king bone. I've tried to stay cool and i'm utterly p!ssed off i couldn't of tried any harder!

[Tay]

with the probable onslaught of the usual inbound comments as i've had to a few of my posts..........

is the bottom pulley flat??? i have had that before where one has been bent from a difficult removal, not by me! and the thing wouldn't start as the sensor couldn't pick a pulse up took ages to find!

do you have the earth strap tight????

i've had this problem before so i'll sleep on it????

[Simon13]

if the engine earth was dodgey it wouldn't crank over full stop. The pulley is on correctly too

[E30BeemerLad]

Assuming everything on the electric/ ignition/ ecu side has been been changed, it has to be timing.

Does TDC on the crank pulley match with the piston @ #1 being at the top.

Does TDC on the cam pulley match with where all the valves should be?

have you tried another dizzy?

If you change that disc in the dizzy housing 180 degrees does it start?

Sorry mate, not doubting you've been back to basics. I'm in the same situation with the golf I've molested, the wife has been without her car since September when I started the swap. I genuinely thought about using the hammer in anger on it Sunday.

[Tay]

just worth a check! i've had one fire up on me test driven it had it cut out, still cranked but wouldn't fire. checked earth strap and had to tighten it on the side of the road!

but i expected a reply like that................

[darren_mk]

Simon - gutted for you, but take a time out with it.
Play with the B3 for a week or so, and then come back to it fresh.

Its always bitter/sweet with cars.......

[Speedtouch]

The backfire was probably the Easy Start detonating. At least it would have cleared any possible blockage in the exhaust!

I take it the cam is correctly timed in?

[Simon13]

it can only go on 1 way the cam. We're all going round in circles! I've got no go for this anymore i need a break from it theres zero interest, its all become a chore

[parkin10]

i know you have probably looked at this but have you checked

that the valves on pot 6 are open
that the valves on pot 1 are closed
that the rotor arm is pointing at no.1 lead
and the cam belt timing marks line up

i know its simple but i have made easier mistakes than this

[e30topless]

ok so a long shot but possible...

maybe the cam is way out ...

Si your shrick stick has 2 dowel locator's instead of one



Most M20 cams have only one locator on the dizzy side like this ..


it's quite possible you have used the wrong dowel hole ? as i said it's a long shot but deffinatly worth checking out

[Andyboy]

Right - if it doesn't cough with easy start then the spark is no good - weak, wrong time, but still useless. Simple as that.
I've dug out some old service bulletins and ECU pin outs. It's something stupidly simple!

[bss325i]

ok so a long shot but possible...

maybe the cam is way out ...

Si your shrick stick has 2 dowel locator's instead of one



Most M20 cams have only one locator on the dizzy side like this ..


it's quite possible you have used the wrong dowel hole ? as i said it's a long shot but deffinatly worth checking out

[parkin10]

e30topless has the answer for me

[Kos]

[Andyboy]

ok so a long shot but possible...

maybe the cam is way out ...

Si your shrick stick has 2 dowel locator's instead of one



Most M20 cams have only one locator on the dizzy side like this ..


it's quite possible you have used the wrong dowel hole ? as i said it's a long shot but deffinatly worth checking out

Hmmmm. This remonds me of when a mate built an M50 and used the wrong front puilley - Vanos pulley on a non Vanos engine. Cam and crank timing bang on, but the slot in the teeth for the crank sensor was about 20 degrees out. All it did was emit the occasional pop from the zorst.

The more I think about it, it feels like the timing is wrong.

As in 180 degrees wrong.

So......front pulley and cam cover off and make sure the slot in the pulley hub lines up with the cut out in the front casing, cam pulley slot lined up and both cam lobes on number one point upwards at 10 to 10 (or 11.05, you know what I mean) If they are not, the cam is wrong. Refit the pulley and make sure the timing marks line up and the slot is by the TDC sensor. You're absolutely 101% sure the pulse sensor is on the right plug lead?? If it's not, it will never run. It's something daft like this.

[Andyboy]

Si - the crank pulley changed in 9/89. Reckon that could be it?