Worlds longest Resto, my C2 2.7 19/3/18 Vent guage action

[parkin10]

just to create a Topic Reply Notificati”‹on
great thread !

[Gortour]

Parkin, you can click on "watch this topic" at top or bottom of the page without posting. Has the same effect.

[Demlotcrew]

Sorry to say Simon, but there is no way you can prove dowel holes incorrectly drilled are to blame, you should always 'dial' in a cam, its not enough to rely on stock holes.

If you really want to prove them wrong i suggest you get one of these;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DTI-DIAL-INDI ... _559wt_978

Andrew

[DanThe]

you should always 'dial' in a cam, its not enough to rely on stock holes.

If that was the case there would not be any holes in the cam, they are there for the pulley to fit onto. By drilling the holes Schrick are setting the timing, I agree its always best to check, check and check again but hey,,,

[Daryll]

I've got a few contacts within AVL-Schrick a number of who are based in Basildump and a couple in the manufacturing plant in Remscheid.

If you get stuck then shout. All of my contacts are in the product development area but might be able to help with alternative channels if required.

[Demlotcrew]

you should always 'dial' in a cam, its not enough to rely on stock holes.

If that was the case there would not be any holes in the cam, they are there for the pulley to fit onto. By drilling the holes Schrick are setting the timing, I agree its always best to check, check and check again but hey,,,

Im pretty sure the dowel can be knocked out of the pulley, all schrick cams come like this, even S14 ones, that doesnt mean it has to be used. Where does it say in the Schrick instructions "use dowel pin for proper installation"

The M20 cams should really be dialled in properly with an adjustable pulley.

[Speedtouch]

You'd think that Shrick would make mention of this in the fitting instructions (assuming they supply any, that is?)

If they don't, then is it any wonder that this kind of sh*t goes down?!

[Demlotcrew]

Well its an additional cost to an already expensive part. I would not recommend anyone run their pulley without a dowel as this could allow the cam to spin if not correctly torqued. An adjustable pulley 'locks' down and wont let this happen.

Andrew

[Simon13]

This is rubbish, they always come with one pulley hole and its in the correct place. This is all hear say and gayness Andrew. No one in their right mind would knock the dowel pin out and just tighten it down in the position they thought right.

There are no fitting instructions because normally they are idiot proof! When theres one hole.........

Daryll very kind offer i'll bear it in mind if it goes all Pete Tong

[bss325i]

I would not recommend anyone run their pulley without a dowel as this could allow the cam to spin if not correctly torqued. An adjustable pulley 'locks' down and wont let this happen.

Andrew

Plenty of engines have fully floating cam and crank sprockets. But yes if the sprocket has one use it.

[DanThe]

you should always 'dial' in a cam, its not enough to rely on stock holes.

If that was the case there would not be any holes in the cam, they are there for the pulley to fit onto. By drilling the holes Schrick are setting the timing, I agree its always best to check, check and check again but hey,,,

Im pretty sure the dowel can be knocked out of the pulley, all schrick cams come like this, even S14 ones, that doesnt mean it has to be used. Where does it say in the Schrick instructions "use dowel pin for proper installation"

The M20 cams should really be dialled in properly with an adjustable pulley.

[bodger]

normally they are idiot proof!

this one obviously isnt

[Meatballs82]

[quote="Simon13"]The cam will have to go to Germany so i'm told. My biggest problem i think is i'm just "Fred in a shed" to coin a phrase and schrick are a huge well respected company.[ quote]

This is irrelevant imo, I have to deal with retail as well as trade customers if say a turbo/dmf goes down and there's extra labour charges involved it doesn't matter if its trade or retail, you want that customer coming back!

We send the faulty parts back for inspection. If the parts get rejected, we quite often decide to take the hit ourselves and keep the customer sweet anyway. Not every customers case is a genuine defect, but sometime's its just not worth the headache tbh, The customer is always right an all that!

Your case is well presented and if your retailer chooses to pay out, he won't be happy with shrick, who dont want to lose his repeat business! You might not get your true cost back, but I'd be surprised if no-one paid you some compo mate!

[Simon13]

He won't read this which is getting on my tits tbh. I don't read forums he says.

I'll send it off next week now

[Kedge]

Just print off a couple of copies of all your detailed posts then, send a copy to the dealer on one with the cam.

[B7]

He won't read this which is getting on my tits tbh. I don't read forums he says.

I'll send it off next week now

Now you see, this is a problem! He is offering to be helpful but won't read this? I'm not surprised it's getting on your tits! But TBH, it doesn't surprise me!!

As above, Print the relevant sections off and serve it to him. He is the retailer. End of. He should be sourcing you a new cam or refunding. He should be sending the cam off himself.

Si you have PM.

[Demlotcrew]

Not quite sure i would be pointing any retailer to a thread full of cam fitting fail.

From a retailers point of view, this whole episode (including towing the car to get it to start) is not one that breeds confidence in the fitterz who carried out the work, so if I was Simon, I would send the Cam back to Schrick and wait their response. Simons circle of influence has much more of a hold on him, so my advice is

[jmpwr]

Since I posted on this thread I get emails about updates. They are not the ones I would like to see. The one I am waiting for is that a new camshaft is obtained free of charge and a token from Schrick as an apology for the incovienience and hassle.

It seems to be easy to side track. I would look at the facts.

The cam in question is a BMW M20 camshaft (whether Schrick makes ones for other BMW's or not is irrelevant).

The M20 has a specification ie valve lift, duration and also a locating hole for the standard pulley to allow it to be timed up.
If the cam does not meet this then it is faulty.

The relevant information is a picture of the engine at tdc. Number 1 cyl on compression and No 6 on the overlap. Show the camshaft pulley and the markings.

As this is how it should be done then the pulley marking should line up with the mark on the head. Your markings should be 180 degrees out.


A picture from your other car with the same cam showing No 1 cyl at tdc on compression and No 6 on the overlap and the cam pulley correctly timed.

The case is then made.

Any other information is not relevant with regard to the cam being faulty.
With regard to the blanked hole you can say that you checked to see if it was the correct hole but you found that it was retarded estimated at 6 to 7.5 degrees based on the standard pulley.
This is the information I would give to the retailer and exchange the camshaft for a new one.

As it is being returned to the manufacturer I would look for them to make a goodwill gesture as they are aware time is money and there has been a lot of your time and money involved and that when you purchased a Schrick cam you did not expect this standard from a company that boasts of the quality of its product.

Just don't mention the WAR!

If you bought a blow up sex doll and the hole was in the wrong place or missing what would you do?
I would return it and say its not up to spec. I would not to tell them all the ins and outs and what I done with it.

I would return any item which is not up to specification or is not fit for purpose unless the cost of returning it makes uneconomic.

[e30topless]

If you bought a blow up sex doll and the hole was in the wrong place or missing what would you do?
I would return it and say its not up to spec. I would not to tell them all the ins and outs and what I done with it.

thats an interesting thought, I'm sure many here would find alternative methods !!

[pacerpete]

Since I posted on this thread I get emails about updates. They are not the ones I would like to see. The one I am waiting for is that a new camshaft is obtained free of charge and a token from Schrick as an apology for the incovienience and hassle.

It seems to be easy to side track. I would look at the facts.

The cam in question is a BMW M20 camshaft (whether Schrick makes ones for other BMW's or not is irrelevant).

The M20 has a specification ie valve lift, duration and also a locating hole for the standard pulley to allow it to be timed up.
If the cam does not meet this then it is faulty.

The relevant information is a picture of the engine at tdc. Number 1 cyl on compression and No 6 on the overlap. Show the camshaft pulley and the markings.

As this is how it should be done then the pulley marking should line up with the mark on the head. Your markings should be 180 degrees out.


A picture from your other car with the same cam showing No 1 cyl at tdc on compression and No 6 on the overlap and the cam pulley correctly timed.

The case is then made.

Any other information is not relevant with regard to the cam being faulty.
With regard to the blanked hole you can say that you checked to see if it was the correct hole but you found that it was retarded estimated at 6 to 7.5 degrees based on the standard pulley.
This is the information I would give to the retailer and exchange the camshaft for a new one.

As it is being returned to the manufacturer I would look for them to make a goodwill gesture as they are aware time is money and there has been a lot of your time and money involved and that when you purchased a Schrick cam you did not expect this standard from a company that boasts of the quality of its product.

Just don't mention the WAR!

If you bought a blow up sex doll and the hole was in the wrong place or missing what would you do?
I would return it and say its not up to spec. I would not to tell them all the ins and outs and what I done with it.

I would return any item which is not up to specification or is not fit for purpose unless the cost of returning it makes uneconomic.

RE blow up sex doll. There is no such thing as a hole in the wrong place, any hole is a goal !

Alas the same does not apply to Schrick cams

[B7]

Not quite sure i would be pointing any retailer to a thread full of cam fitting fail.

From a retailers point of view, this whole episode (including towing the car to get it to start) is not one that breeds confidence in the fitterz who carried out the work, so if I was Simon, I would send the Cam back to Schrick and wait their response. Simons circle of influence has much more of a hold on him, so my advice is

Not everyones perfect Andrew. Some people actually question what appears to be an issue and then think, actually this is an expensive part from a very respected maker and that what appears to be wrong, must actually be right.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Simon13]

Not quite sure i would be pointing any retailer to a thread full of cam fitting fail.

From a retailers point of view, this whole episode (including towing the car to get it to start) is not one that breeds confidence in the fitterz who carried out the work, so if I was Simon, I would send the Cam back to Schrick and wait their response. Simons circle of influence has much more of a hold on him, so my advice is

Thanks, anymore sh!te you'd like to spout or put downs? I'm all ears.

[e30topless]

Sorry to say Simon, but there is no way you can prove dowel holes incorrectly drilled are to blame, you should always 'dial' in a cam, its not enough to rely on stock holes.

Andrew I completely disagree, your being unfair

there is absolutely no need to dial in a cam when it only has one central fixing bolt, the M20 relies a lot on the dowel to ensure timing is correct and fixed in place...surely it can only be safely "dialed in" if needed with a vernier, in this case it isn't needed (a vernier uses the very same dowel to take the standard measurement) !!

the M20 schrick cam should be a direct replacement item so it slots right in there in place of a standard cam,
it's meant for fast road use and marketed towards the DIY type of Guy is it not ?

it's in their interest to make it align up like it is supposed to do ?

I wouldn't admit to fitting it but simply send it back and tell them it's different to the last one that was bought from them as fitted in the C2 wagon, and demand a replacement that is up to the job,

"they" have Failed here, Simon has put his trust in their product and fitted it like he has done many times before

[Gortour]

Sorry Andrew, I second this.

[Demlotcrew]

Looks guys, you can say what you like, Ive fitted enough Schrick cams to know the install procedure.

Lets see what Schrick say, at worst they will replace the cam.

[Dezzy]

Sorry to say Simon, but there is no way you can prove dowel holes incorrectly drilled are to blame, you should always 'dial' in a cam, its not enough to rely on stock holes.

Andrew I completely disagree, your being unfair and gay

A creature of habit I'm afraid this one Steve

[jmpwr]

After taking a break I would:

Get the oil light working
Pull the fuel relay and king lead and crank see if there's oil pressure.
Compression test.

The valves shouldnt clash if 180 out on the cam as it's purely on the intake stroke not compression. However, the latter test above will iliminate any possibility for sure.

Si. If you want me to pop over with the compression tester one evening, just shout.

Trev, I can't see how an engine can be 180deg out and not bend the valves. Only the timing can be!

If the crank was at tdc and the cam was 180deg out, the valves would be resting on the pistons!

Crank rotates twice for every rotation of the cam. If the cam was out by 180deg or the crank was out by 180deg then both situations would cause valve to piston contact think about it. The crank would have to be 360deg out for no contact, but then it would be perfectly timed up!

Andrew

I don't know any of the people or personalities involved but it is the facts which are important.

The cam was fitted incorrectly by forcing the blanking plug in and running the engine without checking. I can see how he fell into that thinking "they blocked the wrong hole" but it was still the wrong thing to do.

Demlotcrew you say you have fitted many schrick cams yet you stated in the post above inaccurate information and then proceeded to defend it.

Richard Feynman (a nobel prize winning physicist) said if you cannot explain it then you do not understand it.

I am not having a go at anyone but only interested in fair play and as everyone who has every made anything knows, we all make mistakes.

[Demlotcrew]

Richard Feynman (a nobel prize winning physicist) said if you cannot explain it then you do not understand it.

How profound, explains your post count.......

What I wrote in reply to B7 is completely 100% incorrect, in my defence, I had Simons new cam in mind, and with the second hole being 180º + Xº advance on top, there was no way one could bolt the head down without contact, I should have clearly wrote;

"Trev, I can't see how the pulley set on the second capped dowel hole would not result in bend valves.

If the crank was at tdc and the cam was timed on the second hole (180º + Xº) out, some of the valves would be resting on the pistons!"

Its quite obvious when assembling the engine where the pistons and lobes need to be in relation to each other. In order to gain maximum power from the camshaft upgrade, it is simply not enough to assume the stock BMW pulley is correctly timed (on the dowel, ie it could be 100º, 102º, 104º etc etc) and the lower timing TDC marks are 100% spot on as machine tolerances are not that good on an M20.

I will refrain helping a very old friend if his pride is more precious than our friendship.

Andrew

[walrus1968]

i got one thing to say


"DIRTY BANANAS"

lol

[Dezzy]

Richard Feynman (a nobel prize winning physicist) said if you cannot explain it then you do not understand it.

How profound, explains your post count.......

What I wrote in reply to B7 is completely 100% incorrect, in my defence, I had Simons new cam in mind, and with the second hole being 180º + Xº advance on top, there was no way one could bolt the head down without contact, I should have clearly wrote;

"Trev, I can't see how the pulley set on the second capped dowel hole would not result in bend valves.

If the crank was at tdc and the cam was timed on the second hole (180º + Xº) out, some of the valves would be resting on the pistons!"

Its quite obvious when assembling the engine where the pistons and lobes need to be in relation to each other. In order to gain maximum power from the camshaft upgrade, it is simply not enough to assume the stock BMW pulley is correctly timed (on the dowel, ie it could be 100º, 102º, 104º etc etc) and the lower timing TDC marks are 100% spot on as machine tolerances are not that good on an M20.

I will refrain helping a very old friend if his pride is more precious than our friendship.

Andrew

Wtf has post count got to do with anything?!

[jmpwr]

Demlotcrew

So you can make mistakes but you don't tolerate it in others?

As I said I dont know any of the people involved so I will keep out of it.

[Demlotcrew]

So you can make mistakes but you don't tolerate it in others?

What leads you to this conclusion?

[B7]

lets try to keep this on track guys. I'm sure Simon needs more shite like a cork up his arse.

[Simon13]

Andrew your coming across as an arrogant plank who's never made a mistake. I'm sure Pete could enlighten us all with some of your fiterz skills too from the past along with crouch. But that's not cricket

[Demlotcrew]

Lucky for me I dont have many fails, the only major one from Crouch is when a bonnet stay collapsed resulting in a nice gash wound half way down the bonnet as it hit the engine crane.

I might be a lot of things Simon, but a plank is not one of them. Im sure you can ask Pacer to enlighten you tonight at Ace