325i Sport or M3?

[silent31]

I'm new to BMWs after having always having had French hatches up to now. Anyway I want something RWD and not too lairy and an E30 seems to fit the bill. I have been thinking of an E36 M3 but to be honest they just look TOO boring for words.

So anyway, the apparent difference in pace between the M3 and a 325 (which looks like a second or so over the 0-60 which I suppose must be a 5 second gap once you get to 100?) isn't really an issue - both would be a slower than what I drive at the moment anyway.

Things that I am taking into consideration are:
value for money - looks like 4 or 5k would get me virtually the best 325i Sport available where that's really scraping the bottom of the M3 barrel. What's the going rate for a vgc, late model Sport - prices seem to be all over the place!

LHD - how much of a hassle is it? I go abroad once a year to the 'Ring, but the rest of the time I'm here.

Everyday practicality - What's the score as far as everyday use goes with either of these - i.e. traffic/commuting 20 miles a day, leaving it parked in town, fuel economy etc? I'm trying to get away from sub 20mpg motoring!

Driving experience - is an M3 that much better than a Sport, leaving the additional power to one side for the moment? They're both the same chassis, both rwd, both over 2 litres.

HELP!!! As a newcomer to E30s (or rwd) I don't know enough to be able to decide. I used to have an old Nissan 200SX as a smoker for keeping the miles off my other car, but I'd like to really learn to exploit rwd to the full and I reckon the E30 is the ideal motor for that. but is going straight for an M3 a bridge too far?

Cheers!

[Adammcf]

I voted Sport if you're looking to spend 4-5k tops. If you can afford more then get an M3 as although I haven't drove one yet they are the best.

You wont be disppointed with a Sport as they are still a great car to drive as well.

[M3Imy]

I was faced with a simliar choice when i bought my first e30 and decided to go for the m3 as I always wanted one as a kid. If you can afford it, its well worth it. The chassis is not the same. A sport would not be able to keep up with an M3 on the twsity bits. Not many cars can! you get used to LHD and if you drive it normally MPG is reasonable. The sport would provide more low down torque as with the M3 you have to keep it in high revs to stay in the powerband.

Test drive both and make your own mind up.

[silent31]

Cheers for the replies so far...they do make sense. One thing that I don't know yet is what my budget is going to be. If it turns out to be 6 or 7 k then I'll be more serious about looking for an M3.

Keeping the M3 on the boil won't be a problem as I actually like to drive like that, I find it unnatural to lug a car around at low-mid revs relying on the torque - I'm used to 16v lumps that ask to be wrung out properly!

Any more pointers on price ranges for a Sport? I seem to find some that are 1-2k, some that are 4k? Why the huge variation? It can't be all on condition, surely?

[M3Jimbo]

Quite simple!! One letter One Number!

M3


If ya can afford it! A standard M3 will wipe the floor with a well set up
sport! So if ya after all out driving experience then M3! Also i'd say the
M3 is more forgiving than a 325i sport if things start getting a bit wayward!
But the 325 is still a great fun car thats cheaper and easyier to maintain!
It also look cool with minimal effort! set of lowering springs if that!

Oh and they sound a lot nicer! (325)

Ive have owned and drove both for at least a year!

[ian332isport]

A standard M3 will wipe the floor with a well set up
sport!

While I appreciate the M3 is a good car, I don't feel that's a particularly accurate statement.

An M3 is a bit more nimble in the corners I grant you, but it certainly won't 'wipe the floor' with a well set up sport. Real world performance is closer than a lot of M3 owners like to accept. On the track, the difference is greater, but that's not really what we are discussing here.

Ian (donning flame suit).

[6potWil6pot]

From what ive seen Sports vary greatly in price cause of condition, the M-tech kit often hides rust so a bad once can cost as much if not more than a good one.

I voted Sport btw cause it'll "probably" be cheaper to run and more useable than an M3 if your after an everyday machine.

Um mine is also for sale (see the thread on the zone or EBAY as BMW 325i M50) (plug plug plug)

[Karan]

ive been told by the previous owner, mine was quicker over a lap than stock m3s....... but if i had the cash id get an m3........

[MONSPORT42]

I've got a 2.7 Sport Auto. I drive it as my one and only car by choice. It suits my driving needs about 18-20k miles p.a. at the moment. I get 25-26mpg average. 33mpg if I'm careful. Thinking about this post has caused me to take a reality check on what it costs me. Over the last three years it has cost anything from Ԛ£5500 to Ԛ£8000 pa to run all in. Take out petrol, insurance and tax and I'm left with between Ԛ£2200-Ԛ£3600 in servicing, repairs and mods (and I get the wear and tear of track days out of that too!)
It hasn't lost anything in depreciation over that time and it doesn't cost any finance so my view is that it costs me less than leasing a Vauxhall Vectra. And I get a grin on my face 100% of the time.
As for an M3, I have toyed with the idea many times. Was looking at one Bexley has for sale only last week. But I have driven them and once the novelty of lhd the dogleg gearbox wore off I found them to be very user unfriendly for everyday driving and very 'drony' on motorways.
An M3 would probably hold its money better if you are planning to keep it but from what I know it would cost a lot more to run than a Sport. But they are definitely the greatest on track.
You have to remember of course that I'm a boring old fart in my 50s!

[Zayyan]

If it's your first E30, and first RWD car, I'd say neither.

With little/no experience of RWD I personally wouldn't want to jump straight into an M3/Sport as it's not the kinda car you'd want to write off.

For the Sport, a sh*tter of a 320 for a few weeks/months to get used to the handling/light rear end could be a good idea.

Not in any way trying to insult your driving ability, just saying that it might be sensible to get used to the handling in a slower E30.

And for the M3 maybe a Renault Twingo to get used to LHD

I think, as you said, maybe going straight for an M3 is a bridge too far

[Karan]

may i just say 325 is easier to drive than a stock e30 4 pot....

m3 is even easier and more forgiving........

go for a 325

Karan

[jmc330i]

If it's your first E30, and first RWD car, I'd say neither.

With little/no experience of RWD I personally wouldn't want to jump straight into an M3/Sport as it's not the kinda car you'd want to write off.

I understand what youre saying, but I went straight from a Cav SRi to the 325i Sport when I was 21. It was my first E30 and first RWD car (although Id driven my brothers 320i touring once or twice).
I wouldnt say it was a problem as long as you take it easy and can understand that the more you push it, the more it will hurt.

I would say go for the 325i. Reasonable to buy, cheap to maintain and fun. Oh, and the noise

[Splondike]

I thought that M3s (particularly in tuned form) are a bit of a more tricky than a sport (especially in the the wet) thanks to the sudden arrival of power when you hit the power band, with the 6 pot it's much more progressive and therefore easier for the more novice rwd owner...

I think in the past year on the zone a few more M3s have been spanked than sports ?

[M3Jimbo]

Read any article on the M3 handling and they will tell you how easy the car
is to drive! Yes the power is further up the revs but the torque is quite evenly spread and theres not masses of it, so with the long pedal travel
there quite easy to balance!

And for the LHD critics out! Touring cars? Rally Cars??
LHD drive takes a couple of weeks to get used to and the same with the
dogleg box!

Fuel economy is not as good as the sports? But im running mine in at the
moment and am getting about 160miles to Ԛ£20 dont know what that works out at!

Servicing is not as bad as everyone makes out unless you use mian
dealers If you can do it ya self and get the parts from somewhere
like C3 its very cheap. If not go to your local specialist! Oil serices are just the same as a sport its got 2 less spark plugs than a sport so inspection 1&2 is a little cheaper The only time its any differnt is for
a second inspection 2 which requires a re shim so they have to keep her
in over night cause its done from cold!

Second inspection 2 Ԛ£300 all in???

Buy what ya wanna buy but i dont think theres a massive difference in money RUNNING them??

[Zayyan]

Fuel economy is not as good as the sports? But im running mine in at the
moment and am getting about 160miles to Ԛ£20 dont know what that works out at!

At 85.9p for a litre that's 31.22mpg, very impressive

I expect you'd be using some kind of premium fuel though so it'd be better than that!

[Rich_W]

A standard M3 will wipe the floor with a well set up
sport!

While I appreciate the M3 is a good car, I don't feel that's a particularly accurate statement.

An M3 is a bit more nimble in the corners I grant you, but it certainly won't 'wipe the floor' with a well set up sport. Real world performance is closer than a lot of M3 owners like to accept. On the track, the difference is greater, but that's not really what we are discussing here.

Ian (donning flame suit).

I tend to agree. The 325 is a different in that the mid range is a bit better.

As for the comments about RWD, LHD, or Dog Leg. Dont worry about it. It doesnt take long to get used to.

RWD can still bite you if you aren't paying attention. I went from a Mk4 XR3i to the M3. As long as you take it easy for a month or so. Learn that RWD requires a different driving style to FWD. Slow in Fast out and slightly different lines to compensate. Im sure you'll be fine.

I like the Sport because its quite low profile. The problem with the M is all the Arches and Spoilers, although discrete, are noticeable. I dont like leaving it anywhere really and I think if I had a nice sport Id be happier.

The M isnt cheap to run mind. I think when you tell the BMW parts dept "M3" every price gets 30% added to it

Any questions bung em up here.

[M5pilot]

If you can get an m3 which has had some tuning work done to give around 220bhp then IT WILL WIPE THE FLOOR WITH A SPORT.

A standard 200bhp one will be hardly quicker than a sport.......a sport that is runing well.

I hated it when I first drove it but after about 2 days you start appreciating what its all about.

They also look fantastic.

Fuel economy is excellent even when pushes hard.

Also, if you want to spend money on getting more power you are rewarded very well. Getting 235 bhp - 240 bhp doesnt cost the earth and creates a very very fast machine.

[Andy]

M3

[M3Jimbo]

A standard 200bhp one will be hardly quicker than a sport.......a sport that is runing well..

I know the Sport has more torque but what about the extra 25 - 30 bhp
in the M3 and does any one have a comparison of weights?
I think the M3 is only about 1200kg

Getting 235 bhp - 240 bhp doesnt cost the earth and creates a very very fast machine.

Is that about the sport or M3

[Zayyan]

A standard 200bhp one will be hardly quicker than a sport.......a sport that is runing well..

I know the Sport has more torque but what about the extra 25 - 30 bhp
in the M3 and does any one have a comparison of weights?
I think the M3 is only about 1200kg

I'd put money on a standard M3 eating any standard Sport that's "running well", specially round corners!

Getting 235 bhp - 240 bhp doesnt cost the earth and creates a very very fast machine.

Is that about the sport or M3

I'd say he's talking about the 2.5 conversion for the M3?

[c76jon]

Servicing is not as bad as everyone makes out unless you use mian
dealers If you can do it ya self and get the parts from somewhere
like C3 its very cheap. If not go to your local specialist! Oil serices are just the same as a sport its got 2 less spark plugs than a sport so inspection 1&2 is a little cheaper The only time its any differnt is for
a second inspection 2 which requires a re shim so they have to keep her
in over night cause its done from cold

s14 should have shims checked on all inspection 1 and inspection 2 services
reshimming will be done if not within tolerance and yes should be done stone cold

john

oh and as for my vote well ive owned more than 1 of both
both are very very capable cars but very different from each other

drive them both if you can and make your mind up

both will put a a smile on your face for sure

but id say own both 1 now 1 later i think that makes you appreciate the good and bad points of both and love them for what they are

john

[Chaos]

m3 is an ace drive - but i wudnt have one as an everyday car.
a lot of ex sport owners bought m3's when new and disliked thgem enuff to go back to 325i's.

Sport is gr8, cheaper to buy and run.


However im gonna suggest something a little different.


a good Alpina C2 2.7 is well within your price range.
Performance on that will be in the M3 range, handling shud be better than sport if not quite M3 good, and it will be practical, cheaper to run and more refined than an M3.

[M5pilot]

I agree with chaos here, C2 is good compromise between the two.

[320Touring]

325i sport for 4-5k may fit your bill perfectly!

Handles well,
look good
and are easily and cheaply serviceable by yourself.

however, In My Opinin, I'd spend 2-3k on a MINT 325i SE then Ԛ£250 on an LSD+ Ԛ£55 for a zone chip, and be laughing all the way to the bank....

in effect-your first year of ownership could be 'free' (the 2k saved from buying the SE instead of the Sport, would pay for the insurance, road tax and a fair wad of fuel)

[frosted]

any c2s for sale at teh mo?

[AndyG]

I know the e36 has been discounted on looking boring, but if it's an M car you want, but also a car to be as useable as a 6 pot sport, the e36 M3 will have no peers!
They're low key in std form, but stunningly fast, and handle well.
But regardless of which M you go for, you need to LOOK AFTER IT!
Good servicing and genuine parts is the way to go, but bear in mind, if they break, they cost, & a lot more than a std sport will.

If you go to the ring once a year, and get an e30 M3, you'll be going a lot more than once a year after you've bought it.

AG

[Andy]

C2 is an interesting alternative, but i would still have an M3 - everything about owning it is fantastic, a major feel good factor. I ran mine daily doing almost 1500 miles / month.

best thing is they never loose a lot of money and selling is easy. [having said that i never struggled to sell a BMW].

[Rich_W]

Something else I just thought of from re-reading your first post.

I would guess you're going to modify the car. The market for M3's is generally not modified. A few exceptions of course whereas the 325s get modified quite a lot. If you're going to change a lot of the car, why pay the premium that the M will cost over the 325.