944 vs 325i

[Gwynleym10]

I'm having a change of plans at the moment, really bored of the m40 its sucking the life out of my driving (lol) and I really don't think i'm going to have the time to do the 335 conversion which I wanted, and I don't have the money to pay someone else to do it.

So the 316i is up for sale and if i get a decent price i'm either thinking 325i or possibly a 944 (bog standard).

I think they seam pretty comparible cars with the 944 possible being a little slower...

I suspect the 944 will be a whole lot more expensive to look after, but I kinda thinking something different to another e30...

Any other suggestions? Needs to be RWD and preferably not jap or a merc....

[Geeman]

944 is a capable car, but how much were you thinking of splashing out on one? Anything below Ԛ£5k and it has the potential to be a shitter. For that money, you can find a mint 325i, no bother.

It'll be more expensive to insure as well, purely for the name alone.

How about an E34 535i / 525i Sport...? the 525i 24v Sports are nice machines.

[andrewe30m3]

the 944 is a good car... having owned one a few years ago.

go for it, however it will forever be in the garage... dodgy electrics and expensive parts don''t mix... stick with the bmw if I were you!!

Fun to drive tho... 50 / 50 weight distribution as the gearbox is under the boot floor on a 944/924/968!!

[Gwynleym10]

Thanks for reply guys!

I thought about e34's (and they are very cheap!) but I think they are just a bit to big. Might have to drive one thoguh to make sure.

I also need to look at 944's really don't know much about them, any good sites around?

What about 924 are they really as bad as people say they are?

It all brings me neatly back to 325i's though...

[tonyppe]

every 944 i have drove i have not liked,
its the audi engine right?
rust buckets from what ive seen in general.
the only thing that i think is good about that car is how the engine is in the front, and the gear box is in the back, along with the clutch etc. to even the weight distribution.
now the 928 is good. how the lights flip up and go in.

how much were u looking on a 325 conversion? i think mine was done at a reasonable price. where u from

[Hyperion]

no mate the 924 had a audi based engine. the 944 is a great car, it was a car i was looking to buy, speed wise, the 944 is not that faster than a 325. if you want a fast 944 go for the 944 S2, or Turbo . If u go for one, make sure it has had its cambelt changed, they can over heat and being old can cause issues with the electrics. Find a nice late model and u will love it.
good luck

[tonyppe]

ok my mistake!

[dbanbery]

Saab 900 turbo 16! doesnt look like it goes but it does... the only thing that toasted me off the lights when i had mine was an E46 M3. Lol. same fuel economy as a 325i and sounds nearly as good (standard 3inch exhaust all the way through with 2 boxes instead of 3) they go forever too if looked after, and since its a saab generally they have. the carlsson edition is the one to have, with uprated head and higher boost [thats 200 bhp instead of 172]

i know its FWD but its still fun..... good grip and forgiving if you overcook it into bends

[Pilsbury]

944 turbo (and S2 isn't far off) will leave a 325i for dead.
The basic 944 engine is related to the left hand bank of the 928's V8. It is a completely Porsche design.

There are a lot of different 944's:
2.5 - decent cheap motor if you can find a good one
2.5 16v - Again, not a bad buy
2.7 - had issues when new, but, hopefully will have been sorted out by now!)
3.0 - S2. Almost as fast as the Turbo, but, with less lag - obviously!
turbo - under 6.0 seconds to 60. 150MPH+ Faster than the contemporary 911.

2.5 and 2.7 cars with the original spoilers, etc look very old fashioned now compared to the newer turbo / S2 look.
Avoid autos at all costs.
Older cheap cars will be pretty poor, but, there are many decent cars to be had for less than 5k now that the 968 is dipping under 10k. You will get a decent turbo for 5k if you look about.

Another option you may want to look at is the 924S, which has the 944 2.5 engine, brakes, wheels, etc in the 924 body shell, which makes it faster. I've seen decent 924S' for Ԛ£1500.

No manual 944 is in anyway slow, even the 8v 2.5 hits 60 in under 7.5 seconds and will keep going to close on 140MPH...

[racecar]

had an 8v 944 as a grands worth of hack before i got e30. used it for a year and then sold car to guy - david for Ԛ£500 with a blown head gasket - who helped build 2.7 in my e30. david has since virtually rebuilt the 944 (engine/suspension/electrics) - it was not rotten - and now his wife has a v.tidy run about which looks good - goes well and is good on juice.

performance of stock 944 compares very favourably with a stock 325i - with 2 major differences:

1 - 944 outhandles 325i big time - much more progressive
2 - 944's fuel economy is on a different level to 325i!!!! - big lazy four pot in porsche is v.relaxing to drive and surprisingly torquey. also i have buckets etc in my e30 - which are really crap on long journeys compared to the porker seats which were really comfortable

i love my my e30 - but it is now just a fun project car - and not really comparable to the 944 - which was a really good long distance relaxing cruiser. the guy who runs www.nurburgring.org has an 944 almost identical to my old one as a cheap ring trackcar.

i was talking with david the other weekend about the 944 and how is getting on - and we both came to the conclusion that for a rwd workhorse with a bit of style worth about 2 grand now - the car is good news

[daveyw]

i had a 944 with the 2.7 engine before i got the 325i. it handles better than the bm but not quite as quick. it was chipped and had a filter and exhaust fitted too. miles were a lot lower on the 944 aswell. averaged 14mpg! it was driven hard though. speaking of driving it hard, i had the car for about 15000miles and when i got rid of it, it was quite smokey when accelerating hard and sounded rough when starting from cold so in my opinion the 325 will take alot more punishment. was surprised at the difference in cost to insure. Ԛ£375 fully comp for the 944 and Ԛ£518 for the 325i! still miss the 944 like hell but 3 kids and a dog meant it had to go. hence the touring!

[Geoff]

I remember racing a 944 back in the days when i had the Hartge. Assuming it was a 2.7 at least and this thing was flying. Although he nearly stuffed it after fish tailing off the round about by the dump at the top of Farningham Hill!!

Dont forget there are two versions of the Turbo, one with 225 bhp and the more exotic/rare 250bhp!! But as far as im aware your going to be paying 8k upwards for a nice 250bhp version.

Id stick to the E30!! Relatively cheap motoring for the fun and excitment you get. Besides in time to come you can turbo it!

[M5pilot]

There was a 944 at Silverstone - I was well impressed with the handling and straight line speed.

[Gwynleym10]

hmm interesting read!

944's fuel economy is on a different level to 325i!!!! -

better or worse?

was surprised at the difference in cost to insure. Ԛ£375 fully comp for the 944 and Ԛ£518 for the 325i!

The porsche was cheaper?

I'm going to forget about looking at turbo ones... out of my budget!
I don't really need any kind of practicality, but do want a bit of a grand tourer (most of my driving is trips to wales or france- no work stuff) my current 316i is useless at this, way to revvy on the motorway, and when you try and make some progress..........


There is also the option of an alfa 75 v6 3ltr!...(rear wheel drive)... but finding a nice one

So 325i, 944, 924s or possibly alfa v6
Or if the 316i doesn't sell for what i want...i'll have to find some time!

[daveyw]

yep, porsche was cheaper to insure dude but not on fuel.

[Maxus]

I must say, I previously had a 1995 E34 525i Sport in Daytona Violet. It was certainly the best car I have ever had. When I came to sell it I had 3 different people call me up saying they had moved on to E39's but missed the E34 so wanted to go back to one.

Very solid car, classic BMW styling, 30mpg, cheap to run, sounded great, and was surprisingly fast. Problem is most of them now have lots of miles or have been abused.

WLN recently had a lovely one for sale for Ԛ£3,850. Gone now I think

[OllieB]

My Dad had a brand new 944 turbo when I was a nipper, 160mph+ all day long. They are serious machines.....

[Pilsbury]

Alfa 75 has a transaxle like the 944, they handle pretty well.
A good one will be hard to find though.

[Simon13]

a 325i with sport seats and a 3.64 ratio will sit at 80-90 all day and do 29mpg easy! The diff gives it very comfortable crusing in top 2.5k @70 mph

but serious bmw sport seats are very comfy

[Geeman]

BMW Sport seats are the best seats I've ever had. Regular 600 mile round trips with no numb-bum syndrome like I used to get it on ther cars...

[Brianmoooore]

BMW Sport seats are the best seats I've ever had. Regular 600 mile round trips with no numb-bum syndrome like I used to get it on ther cars...

Fully endorse this - most comfortable seats ever. Can drive all day with no problems at all.
Curiously, outwardly similarly seats in a 2.2 Astra make me book an appointment with a chiropractor after about 100 miles.

[Gwynleym10]

Hell yes bmw sport seats are nice and comfy, especially when their heated.....

They would be a requirement if I was to get a 325i

[Geeman]

Out of my 7 E30's so far... ALL of them have had Sports seats fitted. A definite blessing.

[Morat]

I was getting bored of life in the 318, it handled nicely but there wasn't enough up front. The 325 has utterly rekindled my enjoyment, its a totally different experience, and the jump from a 316 can only be bigger. If I were you I'd try a 325 for a few months and if you don't like it you can go for the 944. Its not like a 325 is going to cost you much in depreciation over that time

[dsio]

The 924 wasn't a bad little shopping trolley for my mother before her E34, but 95% of them are a disaster. The major problem is that at least here in Aus, the 924s were a Porsche that a young man with little money could afford. Thus the vast majority have been thrashed. Second problem is though the car was cheap to buy, most people who owned them couldn't afford the ongoing dealership services.

I looked at several 924s when I was looking for a car (I bought the E30 because it was brilliant gloss black, while the 924 was ugly mud brown), and nearly all of them had some serious rotting, electical problems (various things, but the electric windows were always dead).

There is a great episode of Top Gear where Clarkson, May and Hammond are on a mission to "Buy a Porsche for under 2500 pounds".

May gets a 944
Clarkson gets a 928 banger
Hammond gets a 924

The mess that all three cars were in really expresses the cheap porsche experience.

[Fushion_Julz]

Have you considered and Alfa?

Seriously: either a 75V6 or a GTV6 with a glorious 2.5litre or 3 litre V6 or the 75 2litre twin spark...seriously capable rear whell drive motors with great styling (especially the GTV) and 50/50 weight distribution with Porsche style transaxle.

[Geeman]

Erm, aren't they FWD...?

[Gwynleym10]

No 75 is the last of the RWD alfa's

They don't rust that much either! But I can't find many and my girlfriend thinks they look horrible..

[Fushion_Julz]

Then look for a GTV6....they look a million bucks...unfortunately they also rust, but any around now will have been properly looked after or restored.

The Alfettas were the precurser to the 75 range and the GTV6 engine was carried over to the 75V6...The Twin spark engines were the same as the Alfettas save for the twin spark head/ignition.

If you're feeling brave, there is a 1.8 turbo version of both the Alfetta coupe (pre face-lift, circa 1979/80) and the 75.
Most ended up in Italy and are LHD only...seriously quick machines, though.

[Fushion_Julz]

Horses for courses, really:

Porsche 924/944 are strictly 2+2 with fairly limited boot space, too...Especially if you've shoehorned anyone into the rear!
The motors, especially the NA 2.5 8Vs are nothing special, but the handling makes up for it. Perfectly tuned and balanced and there are plenty of decent mods if you wanna take it on a track.

Alfa GTV are similar to the Porsche...It is a hatch, but the seats don't fold down and there is a fuel tank in the space in the V6 (the 2 litre has a decent size boot). Beautiful styling (better than the Porsche), decent space inside let down by poor build quality and rust.

Alfa 75 looks boring and plain/boxy in todays' world...But the motors, especially the V6s (same in the GTV) are peaches...best noise on the road and the later 3 litre shares the motor, gearbox and transaxle from the SZ. Proper supercar performance and sounds...The 75 is a decent 5-seater with a biggish boot, too...but the dash ergonomics are strange to say the least!

The 325 E30 is a decent compromise...Looks boxy (like the Alfa) but rusts less (like the Porsche) and has decent amount of space for a small-ish car. You also have the choice of 2 or 4dr..

The Alfa is the fastest car point to point out of all these....The Porsche is the best on the Autobahn (I had one, a standard LHD 2.5 8V facelift car) and it would cruise all day at 220Kmph and feel rock solid with oodles of stopping power.
But I reckon the BMW is the most FUN...It isn't the best handling, nor does it sound the best, nor is it the most powerful or have the best power to weight...But Ԛ£ 4 Ԛ£ it will give you most smiles...

[m-dtech]

2.5 conversion is prob cheapest and easiest

[Gwynleym10]

Don't see the point doing a 2.5 conversion might as well just buy one far cheaper and less hassle. If I have the time and space I would do a 3.5 conversion.

Fushion_Julz is probably right the BMW is the best compromise.. but I fear I at an age when i don't want to make a compromise!

Couldn't care less about boot space or rear passenger space really (i don't sit there!) But looking at things 924's generally look tierd and 944 are probably going to way expensive...

How is the Alfa in terms of handling compared to a 325i? anyone know?

[bigkev]

i failed a 944 on its MOT last year for play on the front lower control arm
Ԛ£394.00 just for the fucking arm (alluminium)apparantly it failed the year before on the opposute side so thats Ԛ£800 parts only for a years motoring
i never drove it cause it just put me right off it also didnt feel like one of those cars that could rack up some serious miles like an E30