C191 plug replacement

[SeanOB]

Hey folks,

I have been assaulted by the electrical gremlins this past week. Was running on one bank after reinstalling my freshly injectortune'd injectors, where a quick google pointed to the C191 plug. A clean up and a wiggle sorted it for a while and the ole turd ran great for a fortnight..... but I have since developed a bad missfire, sputtering under load (0ver 3000 rpm) and ridiculous idle.

I will do a few tests to check the O2 sensor and verify that the plug is faulty, but either way I would like to replace it with something better.

Has anyone on here gone down the route of adding a good quality weather proof pin connector, instead of just replacing the pins etc in the old style C191?

I have been looking for a good source of parts for something like this from Merica:
http://www.delphi.com/manufacturers/cv/ ... connectors

and aside form all the potential fakes on eBay & Amazon, this seems to be the best source in the UK:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotiv ... s/8010796/

(Thats just half of the plug and does not include the little bits, but they have everything)

See any issues with this swap? Anything I should know before I go messing around in there?

[Brianmoooore]

Easiest, and most reliable solution is to eliminate the connector completely. It wasn't fitted on pre facelift M20 looms, and the inlet manifold can still be removed without it fitted, albeit with a bit more difficulty.
Note that the failure isn't with the plug and socket itself, but with the wiring to it, and you may find that the rot has travelled a sufficient distance up inside the insulation of the wiring to require you to splice in fresh wire, even if you are retaining the connectors.

[SeanOB]

Easiest, and most reliable solution is to eliminate the connector completely. It wasn't fitted on pre facelift M20 looms, and the inlet manifold can still be removed without it fitted, albeit with a bit more difficulty.
Note that the failure isn't with the plug and socket itself, but with the wiring to it, and you may find that the rot has travelled a sufficient distance up inside the insulation of the wiring to require you to splice in fresh wire, even if you are retaining the connectors.

Thanks Brian. I hear yuh, removing the plug is an option, but I don't mind re-installing one for the convenience later down the line. My current intake is hideously blue and I have a spare being cleaned up, so I will get at least one occasion to admire my hypothetical new plug.

True, rot travelling up the wire will be a consideration either way. Will have a good look and suppose heat shrink wrap is the best bet after.

[SeanOB]

if anyone is interested, I got the parts together for some Delphi Weather Pack connectors and sorted this out over early May long weekend. Issues of hesitation and misfire are gone, been driving the car hard since then without an issue.

If you are having similar problems and are going to the trouble of cutting the harness to remove the old plug, unless you are a wiz at proper wire splicing, I would recommend just building these plugs. They are tough, weather and grime resistant and you will be happy for them when you blow a head gasket and need to pull things apart. It was a pain pushing the two new plugs underneath the intake manifold, so I would hate to do it 6 times for each injector.

HOWEVER

This is, assuming you can buy this essential tool: Packard GM 12014254 Crimp Tool - Part No: 12814254
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221964947741? ... EBIDX%3AIT

They can be found on UK ebay sometimes, same tool without the 'Delphi' name, but a fraction of the price from the branded one found here for example:
http://uk.rs-online.com/

It crimps the stripped wire and rubber seal in one go and holds everything steady too, making the more awkward, engine side crimping easier.


I used a three way plug for injectors + power and a four way for the coolant sensor & sender and their grounds. One does not connect to anything, so needs a blanking plug.

Here are some links for those in the UK who want to go down this route.

All part numbers, sizes and compatibility are here, on the related products tab: http://ecat.delphi.com/feature?search=12020786#

small bits, buy a stash:
-15324983 Red cable seal Cable Range 1.29 - 1.7mm2
-15324982 Green cable seal Cable Range 2.03- 2.85mm2
-12010300 Green Cable cavity plug

-12089188 Female Terminal, Cable Range 0.50 - 0.80 mm2
-12089040 Male Terminal, Cable Range 0.50 - 0.80mm2
-12124580 Female Terminal, Cable Range 1.00 - 2.00 mm2
-12124582 Male Terminal, Cable Range 1.00 - 2.00 mm2
-12124581 Female Terminal, Cable Range 2.50 - 3.00 mm2
-12124587 Male Terminal, Cable Range 2.50 - 3.00 mm2


Best bet for the complete plugs was Simtek: https://www.simtekuk.co.uk/index.php/au ... =:8:359918:

I used a three way for injectors and a four way for the coolant sensor, sender and their grounds. One does not connect to anything, so needs a blanking plug.

UK availability of the small parts, in smaller quantities, try Raffenday. Just search for the manufacture part number:
https://www.raffenday.com/catalogsearch ... ?ptype=107

They did not have all of the terminal sizes in stock, so I ordered from Merica. This is a UK link, but it is all USA stock. If you spend over £33 the shipping is free anyway. again, just search for the part numbers:
http://www.mouser.co.uk/_/?Keyword=12010300-B

Oh, and the Delphi terminal remover is overpriced, flimsy and can probably be made out of scrap, but it is worth having something like it to remove the terminals from the plugs when you get it wrong.

useful links:

this has the wire sizes, note that this is listed as wire cross sectional area (mm2) like the terminal sizes above, not a diameter.
http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/387011 ... EPLACEMENT

Better pics than any I took in the word doc:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/show ... nector-Fix

Wiring diagrams:
http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/1989% ... Manual.pdf

[BenHar]

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, SeanOB.

Ben