Gearbox feel

[ChrisHC]

I think one of the real pleasures of driving is snicking smoothly through the gears. I have previously owned an E36, two E46s and an E92, all of which had gearboxes which were a pleasure to use and just got better as they got older, a real hot knife through soft butter movement. My 325i Sport gearbox does not feel nearly so nice to use, being more notchy and baulky. I presume it is the original box and if so it has done 180,000 miles, so is this likely to be down to the effects of wear and tear?
It is much better than it was with a Z3 shifter and changing the oil improved matters slightly, but is there anything else that can be done? I have read of various potions that are claimed to compensate for wear, but I assume these are all just snake oil unless someone has had good experience of them.
If it comes to it, is there anyone rebuilding these boxes or would it be a better/cheaper solution to get a used but lower mileage box?
Is it possible and is there any advantage in fitting a later gearbox?

[ross_jsy]

I don't think any BMW has a particularly nice gearshift. Was driving an e92 m3 last weekend and even that wasn't a great feeling.

I would replace all the bushes and the joint on the gearbox itself, along with new engine and gearbox mounts as a starting point. You could for a ZF box which IMO shift a bit nicer than the Getrags

[Simon13]

thats rubbish lots of nice shifting BMW boxes including the car the OP mentions. The 5 speed e36/34 box is a thing of slick beauty that never goes wrong. Even the 6 speeds change well on the whole of late 90's era. The internet has given them a bad name which isn't entirely justified

the newer cars feel even better imo

One of the worst things ive done is throw a e30 325i M20 gearbox in the bin because it had done 250k and it was shifting perfectly but you'd barely make £50 for one at the time came out of a car id used aswell. getrag 260 iirc very strong tough box. They're a slick box when they are right if a little long in the throw compared to new stuff. But the clutch action in the pedal is very long so i always think they are well matched up

[biffer]

in comparison with my old car,a mk2 golf, the geachange on my 325 is much notchier-reverse gear in particular takes much more effort to engage.

there was 270k on the golf,but the bushes in the gear-linkage had been replaced.

am hoping that replacing a few bushes on the bmw will improve things.

[ross_jsy]

Plenty of journalists will disagree with you there Simon, but hey ho, it's your opinion at the end of the day

[ChrisHC]

I am also currently driving an E46 330i and that gearbox is a delight.

[capri_rob]

Gearshift On any high mileage E30 can be massively improved by replacing all the shifter components which wear out - of which there are many !
To replace the lot is now not a cheap job and particularly horrible if you only have axle stands.
Having said that of all the jobs ive done on my E30 it was the most satisfying - gearshift is now perfect - as youd expect from apremium brand car.
If youve just changed the shift lever that wont cut it - there are loads of other components which make up the shift mech which will be definitely worn out and soggy at that mileage.

[aimlessrock]

interesting thread, I have a Getrag 240 in the Cabby at the moment but have a 5 speed ZF E34 box in my garage.

The Getrag box is not bad, but its a little notchy - reverse gear especially.

Anyone fitted a ZF box from an E34 to an E30?..any comments welcome.

[redcar]

A BMW with a properly refurbed shifter set up is lovely! Much better than any other cars I've driven.
I think the ZF gearboxes in later cars do feel less notchy when compared to the getrags in earlier cars such as the e30, but the getrags do still feel great!

[steve_k]

a getrag 260 with all new shifter bushings (front & rear) with an SSK & DSSR is a very good box to use, the one in my car has done 150K & with the above parts feels like it's done half that.

[ChrisHC]

Searching the internet, the only suppliers of Double Shear Selector Rods seem to be in the USA, are there any UK suppliers? I appreciate they are an ideal long-term answer, but they seem very pricey for what they are and I do not expect to do a high mileage in the car, so I am inclined to simply replace the bushes on the original set-up unless people think that would be stupid?

[ross_jsy]

I don't see the point in the double sheer rods. Properly shimming the standard rod works perfectly well.

If I were you I would just replace all the bushes, along with the knuckle (which isn't a particularly fun job with the box in the car)

[ChrisHC]

That's my thinking.

[tomson]

I don't think any BMW has a particularly nice gearshift. Was driving an e92 m3 last weekend and even that wasn't a great feeling.

Care to furnish us with your M power driving experience?

[ross_jsy]

Plenty, thanks.

If you want to argue it, go jump in an s2000, Supra, rx7 or anything with an integrated gear selector/gearbox casing and feel how nice the shift is. If you think a separate gear shift that attaches to the body via a rubber bush and as a result is subjected to the twisting motion of an engine/gearbox on their respective rubber mounts is a good positive gear shift then good for you. Like I said to Simon, that's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it.

[ross_jsy]

On a side note, Chris Harris often complains about the poor feeling of BMW manual boxes. Perhaps you should question his M driving experiences?

[ross_jsy]

It's a shame e30tech is down. A chap made a very nice cradle to isolate the gear shifter mechanism from the body that bolted it to the housing. But don't let sound engineering practice stop you from thinking M products are the best of everything

[tomson]

Plenty, thanks.

If you want to argue it, go jump in an s2000, Supra, rx7 or anything with an integrated gear selector/gearbox casing and feel how nice the shift is. If you think a separate gear shift that attaches to the body via a rubber bush and as a result is subjected to the twisting motion of an engine/gearbox on their respective rubber mounts is a good positive gear shift then good for you. Like I said to Simon, that's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it.

Tell me which M powered BMW's you've driven and why the shift is shite? And how the shift of an E92 M3 isn't up to rice spec?
So a S2000, Supra and the RX7 all share their gearshift with a Landrover, fuck they must be amazing...

[ross_jsy]

1 e30 m3
Multiple e36 m3's in coupe, saloon and evo flavours
Several e46's
1 e39
And that e92 m3, which was a phenomenal car.

I think that's the list. Not many left that I want to tick off bar an e60, but the gearshift on that is a bit irrelevant.

I'll take a "rice spec" gearshift, considering the s2000 is often cited as one of the nicest gearshifts ever made. In fact my friend has an s2000 powered e30 and changing gear with flat shift engaged is something special.

A new Landy does have a very positive, mechanical gear shift too. Long in throw yes, but slotting it in feels lovely (leggy farm turds needn't apply).

Look, I am pleased for you, I really am, that you find BMW gearshifts the best gearshift ever made. I find them wooly compared to what others consider a great shift. And that is to be expected. Even M cars have always been aimed at the luxury side, and a supple gearshift is what a lot of buyers will expect in that price bracket.

Anyway, don't believe me, lets look at a fresh review of a brand new BMW M car:

http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/m2/first-drive-0

"However, the shift isn’t that great. The lever/throw combination is a bit long, the clutch travels too far and the shift quality isn’t snappy enough ”“ the transmission occasionally baulks if you try to hurry it through too fast."

Or how about a thread of owners discussing it, as opposed to a jouro:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542069

"Today I had the chance to drive an 2010 E92 M3 with a manual transmission and I'm sorry to say, but I'm very disappointed in the quality of the switching"

"It's not nearly as smooth as a Porsche or even an S2000 but the shifting in the E9x is way, way better than the E46." (Interesting post, not only highlighting how good a "rice" gearshift is, but saying that while not great, e92 gearshift is better than an e46)

"This was my primary reason for choosing dct. After spending a summer in my friend's s2k I just couldn't go back to the bmw shifter. I heard they finally got it right in the 1m so maybe there's hope in the future." (Oh look, another poster extolling the virtues of an s2000 shifter. It's almost as if they are universally considered amazing)

[ross_jsy]

And just so you don't shit a brick, I am not saying BMW gearshifts are terrible. There are just far nicer shifts out there. It is the very nature of the design (i.e. having one end attached to a fixed point, the chassis, while the other end is attached to the gearbox which moves around)

[ross_jsy]

Bloody Land Rover style boxes used on the DTM cars. What were they thinking?!

[capri_rob]

If I were you I would just replace all the bushes, along with the knuckle (which isn't a particularly fun job with the box in the car)

This.

There is a guide in the wiki which tells you all the bits you need to change.

[DanThe]

Searching the internet, the only suppliers of Double Shear Selector Rods seem to be in the USA, are there any UK suppliers? I appreciate they are an ideal long-term answer, but they seem very pricey for what they are and I do not expect to do a high mileage in the car, so I am inclined to simply replace the bushes on the original set-up unless people think that would be stupid?

Fancy rods are a waste of time, the only part on your shifter setup that hasnt been changed is the knuckle which is number 13 and the mount which is number 8, buy a 2 and a 6 if you want to be really fussy, and a few 11's
They were ok when I fitted the Z3 shifter but not as good as new

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=25_0068

[ChrisHC]

The shifter set-up may be a bit of a red herring then. The problem is not any sloppiness in the gear lever, it is more that when going into the gears it does not do so with the satisfying clunk-click of a bolt action rifle, a much vaguer feeling of having to overcome different bits of resistance with a continuous push, as though the gearbox is trying to baulk the gear change.