Importing M3 from the Middle East

[Strugs]

In touch with a chap in the UAE who might be selling his '87 M3 with 55k miles..

Looks ace in the pics he's sent me and it's a good spec.

Thing is.. it's a German car, which went to Japan where it was stored and has been in the UAE for about 6 years. He's got loads of paperwork and bills from when it's been in the UAE but nought from Japan or Germany..

So, nothing to show 'provenance' prior to being in the desert. If it was to be a keeper this wouldn't be an issue, but the way I'd have to finance it it's a maximum 18 month/2 year proposition and I guess, the UK market the way it is, this would be a problem come resale time?

I'd be looking at around £5k just to get it here (that's with 'Ship My Car' - unless anyone has any better ideas/suggestions) and I'm not too clear on what taxes/duties would be payable.

So.. I appreciate there's a few unknowns there, but - any idea on what to pay for the car (or whether to do it or not??!!)?

[Z3I]

Germany and Japan is good, but middle East, hmmm!

Build into to costs a trip out there to see it, and take Pacerpete with you on a (almost) all expenses trip!

[maxfield]

Before even contemplating parting with any cash, I'd be getting a flight to view it.

Pictures hide so many things, and repairing M3s is not cheap.

Has he indicated on a price he wants? It's not a desirable M3 so it's not going to be worth all that much. Plus your costs getting it back etc.

[bigbird76]

Im not much clued up on travel but could you ferry/drive it back? Take a week off work?

[Rodderz]

Price of car + import tax + shipping, then 20% VAT on all of those values!

[Z3I]

Im not much clued up on travel but could you ferry/drive it back? Take a week off work?

Only Saudi, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria in the way! Not in a million years I'm afraid!

[brutus]

hes right . oh my, just think of trying to drive thro those countries,, so corupt they wld nick it !!

[Strugs]

Before even contemplating parting with any cash, I'd be getting a flight to view it.

Pictures hide so many things, and repairing M3s is not cheap.

Has he indicated on a price he wants? It's not a desirable M3 so it's not going to be worth all that much. Plus your costs getting it back etc.

He's sent me loads of high-res pics, including of the underside, and the bills I've seen (photos of) total best part of £10k in the last 6 years and he's given some names of people there who have seen it and know what they're looking at, one of whom is also a mate of a friend I have here in the UK so I'd trust his view.

TBH, whilst I can check the basics it would need the likes of Pete or Barry to look at it to be sure which obv isn't practical..

I guess the price I would offer would reflect this risk?

What makes you say 'less desirable', just out of interest?

[bab-91]

Do not bring Pacerpete to a Muslim country, you will never get out alive!



If there is no history from Europe have you considered that it could have been stolen?

[Strugs]

Price of car + import tax + shipping, then 20% VAT on all of those values!

I thought I was right in thinking that, if I can prove it was registered in the EU new, that VAT on the price of the car would not be payable (i.e. it was paid in Germany) but according to the HMRC website it seems this is only relevant if the car had left the EU within the last 3 years..

Import tax is 10% of the value (which, I understand, is decided upon by Customs and Excise and does not relate to what you paid for the car)..

If I did have to pay VAT on the value of the car then this would make this idea a complete non-starter..

[bab-91]

and without complete history the mileage can't be confirmed, no?


Seems like a decision full of pit falls, I hope it's going cheap!

[Strugs]

Do not bring Pacerpete to a Muslim country, you will never get out alive!

If there is no history from Europe have you considered that it could have been stolen?

That's a very good question, very well put!!

[Strugs]

and without complete history the mileage can't be confirmed, no?


Seems like a decision full of pit falls, I hope it's going cheap!

I've emailed BMW customer services with the VIN to see if they're able to provide any record of services but again, it's an issue..

The money he wants his arm would be snapped off here, but it's not cheap enough - particularly with the VAT issue - I think to take this much further..

[bab-91]

That's a very good question, very well put!!

I try to be helpful once in a blue moon.

and without complete history the mileage can't be confirmed, no?


Seems like a decision full of pit falls, I hope it's going cheap!

I've emailed BMW customer services with the VIN to see if they're able to provide any record of services but again, it's an issue..

The money he wants his arm would be snapped off here, but it's not cheap enough - particularly with the VAT issue - I think to take this much further..

I'd almost bet my left arm on VAT having to be paid. That said... I vaguely remember Pacerpete telling me, in between muttering sexually motivated threats, that there is some loop hole for claiming some form of tax back for bringing cars in from the Republic of Ireland? He would probably have a good idea regarding it. Might be worth landing at his place with a box of Krispie Kremes' and talking the various issues through with him.

[Z3I]

I imported a Z3 from Australia in 1998, and had to pay car tax, VAT of total landed cost of car, shipping, insurance etc, which worked out at £4200 on a £23k car, which I though was great as I had a fully loaded Dakar yellow Z3 for £27200 when the basic new car here was £32000. I had rang customs and excise about it, and they informed me that they can either take my costs, or their calculated costs in consideration at their discretion. They are a law unto themselves, so I was as nice as I could be to them.

But that was 17 years ago, may be different now.

What country is it in? Is there an export duty to pay there? Everyone will want a cut, you may need to grease some palms to get it out efficiently.

[Gert_8]

Buy it. Dismantle it and ship it over in small bits. Put it back together..

[pacerpete]

It may well be a nice car. I have seen plenty of stuff from the middle east, I am sure there is a nice one out there somewhere..........

Whatever about anything else, the car WILL be clocked 100 % !!!! But that will probably be the least of its issues !

[Strugs]

I think you've all successfully talked me out of it!!

[Z3I]

I think you've all successfully talked me out of it!!

Thats a shame, was looking forward to the never ending tale of the saga of it coming back. We could all have learn't a lot at your expense!

[LondonTom]

Is it black and on a dubai plate - 22920?

[Strugs]

Is it black and on a dubai plate - 22920?

No, but good detective work..

This one's not advertised anywhere currently..

[Strugs]

I think you've all successfully talked me out of it!!

Thats a shame, was looking forward to the never ending tale of the saga of it coming back. We could all have learn't a lot at your expense!

Well, seeing as I'd be doing the Zone a service, perhaps I'll carry on!!

[Mitchen]

This poses an interesting question..

Would you drive through IS territory and risk a potential beheading for an E30 M3?

[bosers]

They'd never catch you in their Datsuns.

[Strugs]

Tell you what.. and dragging this slightly back on topic.. If I could get across Saudi Arabia, nip through Jordan and into Israel, there's a ferry port there that has crossings to Southampton (ferry takes three weeks mind!).. what could possibly go wrong?!

[LondonTom]

Is it black and on a dubai plate - 22920?

No, but good detective work..

This one's not advertised anywhere currently..

Good man - no detective work here though, I spoke to the owner of the above car last weekend.

I can help you with the shipping and get that down to circa £3.5k including getting the car MOT'd.

[bss325i]

Strugs, is your names James?

Someone phoned up ML today asking about this car?

[hennared323i]

Tell you what.. and dragging this slightly back on topic.. If I could get across Saudi Arabia, nip through Jordan and into Israel, there's a ferry port there that has crossings to Southampton (ferry takes three weeks mind!).. what could possibly go wrong?!

Driving across Saudi in a shagged M3 should be an adventure. Can you not go to Egypt via Jeddah?

[Simon13]

your going to want an ak in the boot or something along those lines and be tasty with it would help on this sort of trip!

[Strugs]

Strugs, is your names James?

[Strugs]

Is it black and on a dubai plate - 22920?

No, but good detective work..

This one's not advertised anywhere currently..

Good man - no detective work here though, I spoke to the owner of the above car last weekend.

I can help you with the shipping and get that down to circa £3.5k including getting the car MOT'd.

Very interested in your offer reference shipping if I decide to go for this.. erring towards 'no' based on the lack of history and cost/benefit..

[ah]

your going to want an ak in the boot or something along those lines and be tasty with it would help on this sort of trip!

[Strugs]

Back on topic..!!

This idea is virtually dead.. but before I pull the trigger one last time..

Anyone know how HMRC value second hand imports for the purposes of VAT? I would imagine it's not based on what one pays for car (£50 M3 anyone?? )?

[pacerpete]

Back on topic..!!

This idea is virtually dead.. but before I pull the trigger one last time..

Anyone know how HMRC value second hand imports for the purposes of VAT? I would imagine it's not based on what one pays for car (£50 M3 anyone?? )?

They do accept your purchase invoice BUT if you are going to take the p1ss, you better have money transfer paperwork and proof of the advert. Some scurrilous sorts post up snide ads for this very reason, so I have heard........

The revenue are not stupid and have access to all sorts of interesting data, so best to not be too greedy