Removing front sub frame

[polsta]

Need some advice on the front sub frame ..What's involved with removing the front sub frame with engine out of the car ? Can it be done and car left on stands by doing it in a garage without much space to either side ? Maybe 1.5ft to each side

Rough time involved to do so ? And what new bits would be needed to re fit ?

Also- can it be done at a later date with engine in the car or not ?[/list]

[Jim320i]

4 bolts hold it in place.

Wish bones connect to it, 1 nut either side and the rack has 2 bolts attached

Jack it up and get it removed before the engine goes back in as the engine rests on this...

There are no gaskets or anything like that to replace. You might want to replace the bolts that connect it to the car just for the visual side of things.

I don't have the part number for them

[polsta]

Is that all it is ? Do you not have to remove the front suspension or anything ? Can it be left rolling with it removed ?

[Jim320i]

Anti Roll Bar as well actually

The struts can stay in place as they are attached to the wishbones. The wishbone connects to the subframe so undo that and the other bits mentioned and it will be off.

The car wont be able to roll, don't try to lower it back onto its wheels without a subframe

[polsta]

Nice one jim cheers got it , how long time wise roughly to remove it would you guess ?

With the anti roll bar when that comes off is it clean ? As it can also be blasted and powder coated ? Any new bits needed when re fitting that ?

[Jim320i]

If your powder coating, you may as well have the anti roll bar off and do that. New drop links can be purchased, ECP will supply them, they also have a rubber holding them to the subframe but not sure if Euro do them

Time wise, it shouldn't take you long at all, if all the nuts and bolts come off in one go with no messing around, probably around 20-30 minutes, if they don't come off, how ever long it takes to get them removed.

Refitting is just reversal

When you undo the wishbone one from the subframe, you'll need to tw@t it down and out.

Give everything a good 24 hours in wd40 too before you try to undo things, will make life a lot easier

[polsta]

Nice one jim thanks for the help , all sounds retry straight forward and would be silly not to do it before the engine goes back in, I've already got a rear subframe ready to be done aswell , il post pics in the thread of how it goes

[Motorhole]

If it helps, once my engine was out, I removed the entire front suspension assembly and dragged it out from under the car in one piece. Make sure you loosen all nuts/bolts before you get the car in the air - safety first and all that. Then undo the following, not listed in any particular order:

1) Remove steering linkage from rack
2) Undo 3 nuts holding each strut top mount in place
3) Undo subframe bolts - 4 off
4) Undo the 2 bolts holding each control arm bush housing (lollipop) in place

The lot will come out then. Drop it onto a sheet of ply or something and just drag everything out in one piece.

[Kedge]

If it helps, once my engine was out, I removed the entire front suspension assembly and dragged it out from under the car in one piece. Make sure you loosen all nuts/bolts before you get the car in the air - safety first and all that. Then undo the following, not listed in any particular order:

1) Remove steering linkage from rack
2) Undo 3 nuts holding each strut top mount in place
3) Undo subframe bolts - 4 off
4) Undo the 2 bolts holding each control arm bush housing (lollipop) in place

The lot will come out then. Drop it onto a sheet of ply or something and just drag everything out in one piece.

If possible that's how I prefer to remove engines (inc the gearbox) as well.

[polsta]

She's out and ready to go ! Along with the roll bar and the bush clamp bracket things

So for re fitting , what do I need and where from ?

Drop links, roll bar bushes, and all new bolts ideally ? Can the bolts still be got from BMW ? And engine mount bushes too


[/list]

[Jim320i]

I think you need a new anti roll bar...

[Jim320i]

Hang on...

I couldn't see the end of it... Thought it was missing some how

[polsta]

Hang on...

I couldn't see the end of it... Thought it was missing some how

Haha I thought that when I looked at the pic, it was dark when I took it on the phone, just a bit grubby, not much rust on either just a little bit of surface here and there will be great when blasted and powdered

Dan I'm not asking how to re fit it, im asking on the best bits/place to get to do so , ie the roll bar bushes ? Engine mounts ?Bmw ? Or euros etc ? Il be doing some sort of pas conversion, maybe even for when this goes back in put a rack in, someone said that the burton mounts are good for a 36/46 rack job but they started splitting after not that long

I don't know if to maybe get new wishbones and stuff and get the suspension legs out and get them
powder coated too and just do the lot now and re fit with new discs etc , although its not that easy with the limited space to the sides its all quite a squeeze but il have a good look and think tomrrow when its daylight as it got a bit dark

[Fastroad]

Hang on...

I couldn't see the end of it... Thought it was missing some how

I had to take a double look at that, blended in with the floor.

That subframe doesn't look too bad normally they need the reinforcement plates welded in but from the pictures yours looks ok.

Your better off powder coating the legs while your at it and it's in the air anyway and replace all bushes/rubbers to get that tighter newer feel drive.

[Jim320i]

I'd agree with fastroad, if your going to all this trouble, you may as well get the front struts done as it sounds like they'll be the only thing not looking fresh.

As for replacement parts, I can't advice as I just use second hand bits and blu tac for everything because I'm a tight arse

[polsta]

Had a look today, I'm not sure there's enough space to get them out, how/where do the cables remove from is that easy ?

I think I'm going to leave it for now, I rust treated and hammerite smoothed the struts last year they look ok and shiney, wishbone bushes etc look ok,but I think il do that as a seperate job once the cars driving- which is priorety , and totaly refurb the struts and new top mounts,wishbones,bushes,calipers discs and pads and a pas conversion all in one go on a ramp properly to have easy access

[DanThe]

So your going to have the ARB and crossmember blasted/coated and then bolt scabby old shite back onto it?
At the very least, you want to be fitting new wishbones, rear bushes, ARB brackets/bushes and drop links.

If you dont fit engine mounts and a rack now, you will have to lift the engine again/drop the crossmember to do it at a later date

[Kedge]

What Dans says, do it all in one and save twice the work later.

With the subframe out now's the perfect time to convert to PAS. You don't need access to a ramp to do all those jobs you've listed, everything I've done on mine has been at the height my jack will go.

[Fastroad]

Had a look today, I'm not sure there's enough space to get them out

If you have got the subframe out and the car is in the air I would expect, you can unbolt everything and take it all out from underneath so you do not require much side space.

[polsta]

The trouble I've got is space, as it sits now on the stands there is barley enough space at either side of the wings to squeeze in, and with the front valance/kit , its all a squeeze

A full all in rack conversion 46 say your talking 350-400 quid, its an expense that has to wait for now with just having and have to to fork out for all the engine rebuild and parts and fitting and all the fluids and everything else to get it running and a new set of decent rubber all round and various other things - some big bills

Il probably get new wishbones to go with the other bits and then just do the rack job seperate later, can't do everything at once although in an ideal world I would

[Kedge]

I hear what you're saying, that's exactly why mines not on the road yet. Just got to a point when I thought, f*ck it, it's not hitting the road until everything is done.

[polsta]

Its an expensive game, what I don't want to do is cut corners - try to do too much at once and you maybe skimp a bit - ie a cheaper tyre and a standard e30 pas rack , etc, my cars also manual steering so need to do a full pas job, I'd rather do the jobs and do them decent with the best bits, plus a job like that is better done with proper space and the car on a ramp or out jacked right up with full access rather than a squeeze like that- plus a big factor is watching the paint, I looked today and to try remove the struts and wheels etc is a squeeze and I don't want the paint taking hits

How much are wishbones ? Do they come with new bushes on and sort of bolt straight in or do you have to get them seperate ?

[polsta]

are febi bilstein good rol bar bushes ? euro do not have any lemfoder in stock

they also do not have any roll bar drop links

gsf have them - £12 vtech , or £20 "premium" ??



took the bits to powdercoaters and picking them up thursday

[DanThe]

vtech are crap chinese shite
ECP are a Lemforder dealer, they do sell them ive bought loads

Poly roll bar bushes are best, these are good - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E30-3-Ser ... 20d0816434

[polsta]

ive just rang them up, they seem to insist they dop not sell lemforder arb links, only TRW for £16 each or ocap for £10 each ?


what make would the "premium" from gsf be ?

[polsta]

ive ordered the euros lemforder ARB bushes

so just need the drop links now, what do i go for if i cant get lemforder ?


also engine mounts, just spoke to bmw - £35 each

[Quaser]

i think many people put mondeo droplinks on as an upgrade

[polsta]

Euro have cancelled the order of the arb bushes and said out of stock and a big back order

Who makes BMW ones ?

I've rang BMW they are £9+vat each , so I've ordered 2

[billgatese30]

Probably lemforder or febi. I have always went for cheapies from ECP as the amount of speed bumps around here ruin them in short order regardless!

[capnmchl]

ive just rang them up, they seem to insist they dop not sell lemforder arb links, only TRW for £16 each or ocap for £10 each ?


what make would the "premium" from gsf be ?

TRW will be OEM spec, and just as well made as the Febi or Lemforder stuff.

Ocap is just a bit better than Qdrive.

As above, every one I've put on has failed in a number of months so there's no point going expensive on them.

[BenHar]

are febi bilstein good rol bar bushes ? euro do not have any lemfoder in stock

they also do not have any roll bar drop links

Go for the mondeo links. They have a ball joit on both end so are much more robust.

Ben

[polsta]

Thanks guys keep it comming

I've ordered the BMW bushes and trw drop links

Think I should do the wishbones too, what's the best way to go about that ? Buy whole new units or refurb ?

[capnmchl]

New units. Once you've fucked around with pressing out and pressing in 4 ball joints you'll just wish you had some nice new shiney wishbones.

[G-Bear]

are febi bilstein good rol bar bushes ? euro do not have any lemfoder in stock

they also do not have any roll bar drop links

Go for the mondeo links. They have a ball joit on both end so are much more robust.

Ben

This. A much better built drop link. You need the rear Mondeo drop links which go up at the front of ounE30. Wiki has the parts numbers for ECP. They're usually always cheaper on CP4L, sister company to ECP.

[DanThe]

are febi bilstein good rol bar bushes ? euro do not have any lemfoder in stock

they also do not have any roll bar drop links

Go for the mondeo links. They have a ball joit on both end so are much more robust.

Ben

This. A much better built drop link. You need the rear Mondeo drop links which go up at the front of ounE30. Wiki has the parts numbers for ECP. They're usually always cheaper on CP4L, sister company to ECP.

Has anybody on here used these for a large amount of miles? Just wondering how they hold up in the long run